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Hi guys I recently picked up a non running turbo 2 1987 fc3s
It's my first rotary so bare with me on my vocabulary
Car had paperwork for a brand new long block if that's what you would call it
When I got the car I tore it down to a bare block. I replaced all the seals and hoses. Performed an emissions delete had a fuel injector cleaning service performed. New aen 440lph fuel pump
Deleted the fire starter on the fuel rail.
I have spark. I have fuel to the injectors not positive that I have fuel in the combustion chamber or not.
My issue is when I crank the car it simply makes white smoke it kinda trys to start I can feel a shutter but I can't quite hear combustion. but only ever just makes white smoke. any advice is appreciated.
Again I have spark. At the plug. I have fuel at the injector not Shure if it's spraying out the other side. I cleaned them and I know they are capable of spraying. And I'm burning something to make white smoke but maybe I'm wrong. I ran my lines the same as what's in the photo I've attached. Anything not in the photo that was originally equipped on the car has been left unplugged if electrical. Or capped and clamped off if a hose.
Check if timing is correct? Can you hear 6 even pulses for compression? Sure the fuel hoses from the chassis are going to the correct fuel hard line? Pulled the plugs to inspect the tips? Have a second set of plugs on hand. I’d plug tips get wet with fuel, use the second set while the first set dries. You should smell fuel in the exhaust if it’s getting into the engine. Pull the plugs and crank to see fuel vapors pulsing out.
your statement “Anything not in the photo that was originally equipped on the car has been left unplugged if electrical. Or capped and clamped off if a hose.” creates a lot of questions, and would lead me to assume something vital is not plugged in (the maf, tps, cas, air temp sensor, coolant temp sensor, etc is not in the picture you provided.)
recommend making a video and posting some pictures.
Video walk around of turbo 2 engine bay lines and wires.
Here is the video you asked about. Lmk if youd like me to cover more areas. I've gotten Preety good at pulling the parts off quickly if you want to see under things just ask and I'll take some better views.
Shoot. I just had a long writeup relating each time stamp to comments but it got deleted. I'll redo it in a bit.
At 5:10, Green rectangular 2 pin connector looks to be for your coolant temperature sensor. That needs to be plugged in behind the waterpump, it gives the ECU the coolant temperature so it knows to adjust how much fuel goes in.
Verify the Crank angle sensor (CAS) is in the correct position. Check the FSM or another post. Turn crank by hand until timing mark on crank pulley aligns to front cover timing mark. The CAS should align a certain way.
Verify throttle position sensor is set correctly. Check FSM or another post.
Check wiring diagrams to make sure you plugged the fuel injectors in correctly by checking wire colors. Hopefully you already did this upon disassembly/reassembly.
Pull leading plugs, remove EFI fuse under hood, crank engine. Listen for 6 evenly-spaced pulses which would verify you have some compression. If they are not evenly spaced, one seal is stuck or broken. If they are not evenly spaced, throw some marvel mystery oil into each spark plug hole, and keep rotating the engine by hand and hopefully a stuck seal comes loose.
Can reinstall the EFI fuse under hood while leading plugs pulled, spark plug wires removed. Crank and see if fuel vapor is pulsing out to verify fuel is getting into the engine.
How long was the engine sitting? Was it complete with plugs installed and manifolds on? I'm asking to see if the rotors/seals have been exposed to the environment and may be stuck.
Here's a link to my current situation. I randomly hooked up a bunch of battery's today and it turned right on.
as you can see it's smokey. Has a sort of random misfire sound like once every 5 seconds. Didn't seem to register coolant temp.
And I shut the car down because there was an alarm noise inside the cab. Literally seconds After shutting down the camera. I check the oil it's good. I tried to check coolant like I had done on video seconds before and was welcomed to a suddenly pressurized coolant flow out of the cap so I tightened it down quick. This makes me suspicious of combustion gasses in the coolant chambers. Maybe I'm paranoid. And on top of all that the car won't start now as if it's suddenly flooded.
Anyway here's my latest video.
before you got the car, do you have any idea of how long it sat for? i'm thinking the smoke (and maybe the misfires you hear)could simply be old gasoline. what does the exhaust smell like?
also, possible for the misfires you heard ... where is the timing?
i'm not 100% sure your cooling system would have necessarily gotten hot enough in less than 3 minutes, but are you sure your temperature gauge is connected/working? maybe i'm wrong. however, you could have flooded it by shutting down so quickly. it's something that has happened to many people on this board.
You should use a block test kit which is a rental tool from an auto parts store, but you buy the blue fluid. You put the fluid into the tester, remove the radiator cap, start the car, then hover the tester over the radiator to pump in air that is coming out of the coolant. If it turns yellow, there is exhaust gas in your coolant, and hence blown coolant seals.
and check compression if you haven’t already.
im always weary of rotary engines which have sat for a long time because the oil control o-rings can dry up, and may be the cause of the blue smoke. A little bit of oil can make a lot of smoke.
Thanks for the advice guys I'll go grab a block tester.
I also have a coolant system pressure tester. If I were to give this a try what pressure would I pump up to?
Also I moved the car to the lift today got caught up with other things soni haven't racked it yet.
I let the car warm up enough for the temp gauge to move.
With the car cold first start of the day. I was able to start the car multiple times with no issue within 5 seconds of cranking.
I moved the car and as I went to get on top of the concrete pad where my lift is I stalled it out. Then she wouldn't fire up again.
From what I've observed and the little I know about the systems it seems as the car warms more and more it produces more and more smoke. It start out super thin and transparent then thickens more and more as the car warms. I've noticed when the car has been flooded after prolonged cranking and no start once it does start it pours the same thick smoke that the car has to warm up to achieve un flooded. I believe I may have an over fueling issue. I'm going to try to adjust the throttle position sensor (if it has one) does this car have any sort of obd scan port. I have a snap on scan tool that If I could connect it I could probably see throttle position and make Shure it's set properly.
Here's a link to today's runtime inspection.
Pressurize the cooling system until radiator cap pressure is achieved. ~11 psi.
No obd port on these cars. Have to go in and jumper a connector to get the check engine light to flash to diagnose any check engine light issues, and use a multimeter to check sensor settings and condition.
reference the full service manual for sensor voltage and resistances. Many threads exist here on how to check and adjust the tps.
At this point the compression could be low but don't run with that yet. After a rotary has sat for a few years, it can loose compression but running it can get things moving/broke in again. I'd focus on getting it running and let it run for 20 minutes or so. It will take five minutes or so at idle to get the t-stat to open. Getting a couple of good heat cycles would be a good thing at this point. Just keep an eye on the oil pressure and coolant temp. No need to rev it. You want things to work themselves out.
Well guys I've spent a good amount of the day reading the factory service manuals and checking parts.
I've removed the throttle body and set all it's adjustments to the factory specifications.
I pressure tested my coolant system to 12psi and it held that pressure for an hour. I left it over night and it slowly bled off but never hit 0 seems normal to me.
After setting everything to factory specified now the car won't start at all.
I may have not mentioned but when I got the car the fuel pump was dead. I replaced it with a aem 440lph. Could this be my over fueling issue. I think so. I'll find a fuelab or aem regulator and install it. I would also like to mention that there is a secondary and primary fuel rail on the lower fuel rail I deleted the fuel dampener looking thing as was reccomended by a sponsor of the forums due to causing engine fires. I also found the oil squirter lift rod had been wedged by a section of the harness between the lift rod and the alternator wedging the rod in an accelerating position. This would probably explain the heavy smoking issue.
at the current moment I've found the factory's no start/ hard start diagnosis sheet and have been just reading and checking.
On another note you can see in my videos I have a few block off plates I got from one of the forums sponsors. Are any of these the cause of my hardship. I am on factory computor but am quickly getting tired of not being able to read a data log and having to probe and test for resistances and voltage.
I'd like something I can hookup my laptop or snap on moddis too. Let me know if you have any reccomendations for engine management. I'm making another video of my observations and will reply with its link asap.
Thanks for being so helpful!!!
... when I got the car the fuel pump was dead. I replaced it with a aem 440lph. Could this be my over fueling issue. I think so.
i was actually tempted to mention it, because i did notice it in your original post. however, big pumps in otherwise stock settings seem to be hit or miss around here. some people seem to have issues while others don't. with the other things that you potentially had going on, i was waiting until they were resolved or there were more clues pointing to it.
Here's yesterday's inspection observation guys. I'm gonna order a few more parts and try again. Would love to hear some input on my findings and observations as I'm still flying blind with a radio lol
Also my exact current plan is to get an rx8 2.0 or 2.2 kw starter and convert my starter using its parts. Is there any specific year make and model that best?
I'll be getting a fuel pressure regulator. I assume the aem mini or fuel lab mini will be just fine. Looks like I'm out of stock of both unfortunately.
New wheel studs all around for first test drive.
Spark plugs because I've never replaced them or gapped them.
As for my oil leaks and seeps I'm gonna hold off on repairing them untill I can get this thing to idle.
thanks a lot guys
In one week we've Gone from a lawn piece to an actively trying to dial in settings and getting real responses from the system
At this point we have confirmed the functionality of a few of the most crucial systems to longevity so I'm willing to spend some more money on the car. I was looking at compression testing and it turns out my piston motor testor won't work can someone show me an affordable alternative to the actual factory compression checking tool.
Spark plugs because I've never replaced them or gapped them.
yes ... replace them. fresh plugs never hurt the cause.
I was looking at compression testing and it turns out my piston motor testor won't work can someone show me an affordable alternative to the actual factory compression checking tool.
as i understand it, you can use your piston tester. you just have to remove the Schrader valve to use it on a rotary.
Hi guys. I've been busy with work but have actively been working on the fc t2.
Ive taken it on a few good rides. I feel like it definelty has around 210 horsepower. I replaced fuel injectors.
I set the idle once more.
The car runs and drives doesn't ever stall out.
Never over heats. I've used the gauge as well as a temp laser to confirm temps in all areas besides the turbo are lower than 220 at all times. I replaced a radiator cap that was dripping just a bit. Apparently there was just a lot of gunk on the turbo and exhaust area because as soon as I drove it what I thought was smoke from an oil leak disappeared compleltey.
I can only drive the car once a day.
Upon shutting down after first drive the engine will not fire back up.
I have a good fuel aem440.
I've noticed below a 1/4 tank when the car is off I can cycle the key to the on position and I can hear something blowing bubbles in the tank.
the boost gauge and oil psi gauge do not function.
When I turn the key to the on position the dummy light test doesn't happen.
Sometimes randomly a light and alarm will come on asking me to add more coolant but the coolant is always full when I check. both radiator caps and the reservoir.
Seems I might need look wherever the fuse box is located.
As for shutting off and not starting again when warm... I shouldn't hear bubbles in the tank. If anything I should hear a stream. I'm thinking the fuel system is suffering from vapor lock?
To attempt to remedy this I've ordered some head shield casing to cover up the fuel lines in the engine bay. I'll replace the fuel filter as well. Not Shure there's any clearance to cover the fuel rails.
Are the newly installed fuel injectors known to be good and not leaky?
Leaky fuel injectors can cause the issue of flooding the engine with fuel after shutdown which would cause the same issue of not being able to start after shutdown.
Could try seeing if that is the issue by running the car, shutdown when hot. Verify it won’t restart. Disconnect efi fuse under the hood, crank for a few seconds to deflood, put efi fuse back in, then try to start it.
probably not the case but I figured it’s a quick test.
Nothing to update still same issue after running the car for a while I come home run inside come back out and she won't start just crank and crank and crank. I've tried adding more batteries in both series and parallel configurations with no change. It's not flooding. I've done the deflood procedure for upto 60 seconds with no change in motor noise or vibration. I'm going to start removing and restoring the electrical side of things. I have no reading from oil pressure and boost Guage. So I'm gonna start by pulling the cluster and snaking my way around under the dash. I've noticed the car drains any battery over a period of a week of not using it. So I must have a parasitic load somewhere. Possibly this is opening the main relay? I guess I'm gonna go gremlin hunting at this Point. Any advice is always appreciated. Thanks for coming on this journey with me guys. If any of you want to come see the car it's in Olathe Colorado. Lmk if you want me to post any videos I did a good 1st to the end of 4th full pull today on a mountain. Drives like a top. Doesn't leak even a drop. Just won't start after turning it off at operation temp
Well guys we may officially have reliability. If you're just getting here I recommend starting at the beginning of this entire thread.
Anyway since the last update. I purchased a smoke leak detector. Started pumping the motor up with smoke. Found 3 small leaks at 2 psi. And I would just continue adding psi to the system until I reached a total of 20psi fixing leaks as they all showed up. In order to get a proper seal at 20 psi I had do remove everything. Literally took the motor down to its core. I applied a (SKIN) coating of toyota black fipg to all the gasket surfaces and allowed to cure over night. Everything emissions related is gone. I don't even have an iacv.
My ever so slight misfire in the previous youtube vidoes is gone. I havnt gotten the car to full running temp because I'm having an issue replacing the radiator cap on my aftermarket radiator. I keep dripping coolant when the cap openes to allow the coolant to expand into the expansion tank. The top seal isn't sealing. I thunk my flange may be warped so I'm gona line sand it to deck it.
I reached the point of desperation that I started messaging fc3s owners on fb marketplace to ask them about their experiences. From the information I gathered almost each person I contacted had the same issue as me and replaced injectors and rebuilt the mtoor to still.have the motor flood. So I installed a fuel pump cut off. Instead of running a 3 wire switch I just decided to interrupt the vehicles signal to the relay with a toggle. Seemed to stop my flooding issue. I haven't even able to drive because of my coolant drip so as soon as I get that sealed I'll hit the road and report back!
04-30-23, 08:33 PM
