NGKTECH

Hello Guys,

I purchased an 88 SE model on dec 26th and drove it home 30 miles. Car drove nice and seemed to have good power, temp never got over 1/4, all was well.

I got it home and rebuilt the clutch master cyl and slave cyl and bled the clutch. Also replaced the drivers headlight motor because the original didnt work.

I tried to restart the car after all this to no avail. I followed the FSM and pulled the egi fuse to try and help. I also pulled the plugs which were black with fuel and oil, so I replaced them with brand new NGK BUR7EQ and BUR9EQ. I also cranked the engine with the plugs removed to clear the engine, but I still cant get it to start. I am out of ideas. The previous owner was driving the car to work everyday the week before I purchased it and now I cant even get it to start.

I also think that the starter is starting to go now from all the cranking, but I am unsure I want to spend any more money on it if I cant get it to start.

I cant really see the engine not having good compression since it ran excellent when purchased and when I drove it home.

Is there any other advice you can give me on starting or what to look for. the only thing I have not done is inject oil into the chamber. All four coils are producing spark and the plugs are coming out wet with fuel and oil, so it seems like all is working but for some reason its not hitting. The starter/fan/pulley just spins rather quickly but it never hits like you would hear on a piston engine.What I mean is it trying to almost start

Sorry for the long post but I am new to rotaries and this thus far has been frustrating lol. Thanks for any help.

Regards,

Brandon

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

A bit of oil into the chambers will get it started assuming it has fuel and spark. Flooding washes the oil film off of the housings and thus dramatically lowers compression.

If a bit of oil doesn't do it, a push start always will.

NGKTECH

Thanks for the reply.

I might have to try that. That makes sense since it seems to crank very quickly as if the compression is low.

The only thing confusing with that, is the plugs are coming out with not only fuel but also oil, is that just from the oil injection system?

So to recap and be sure I am doing this right I need to put just a few cc's into the chamber? Should I do it in all four plug holes or only in the trailing (top plugs)?

We have some freezing rain right now, but as soon as it clears I can try this. Also when removing the plugs to clear the engine I should be removing the trailing plugs? Or the leading? Or both? Thanks.

Regards,

Brandon

ab'2.71828182845904523536028'

I would try to mess with timing. Why don't you try taking your Crank Angle Sensor and realigning it.
Just a thought. If you got spark and fuel, I would guess timing.

NGKTECH

that's something to keep in mind if the oil trick doesnt work, but I couldn't really see the timing being off considering the previous owner was driving the car and it was starting without issue. The timing should also cause performance issues or rough idle, which were not noticed when I drove the car.

NGKTECH

Ok guys heres an update,

Today I replaced the battery with a new one. Removed all four plugs and cleaned them, and reinstalled the trailing.

I cranked the engine over with the EGI fuse removed, throttle to the floor and leading plugs out of the motor. I did this twice for 7-10 seconds.

I then put some oil into both chambers and then reinstalled the plugs. I then cranked the engine over 3 times for about 10 seconds each time. I could hear the engine slow as it cranked and start to build compression. I then reinstalled the EGI fuse and cranked while spraying some starting fluid into the throttle body.

It still didnt start through. Is this normal? Should I try the whole process a couple more times? Do I need to disconnect the fuel pump connector or relay or is just the EGI good?

If I should disconnect the fuel pump connector in the engine bay can someone point out where exactly it is located>? Thanks

-Brandon

NGKTECH

I tried the same thing last night as I did the night before and it was real close to starting. It chugs now like a normal engine, like its about to start. It even backfired one time.

Do you guys think a jump start would be easier now that the compression is back up?

One other question is after injecting the oil into the chamber I have been cranking with the throttle open and the EGI fuse pulled a couple times to let the compression build before tryig to actually start the car.

Is this the correct way or should I be injecting the oil and then immediately trying to start?

Thanks for any help.

Regards,

Brandon

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

have someone help you pull the car so you can clutch start it.

nsaneracing

the engine harness might be no good

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

That's not very good advice. If the CAS is still locked down, then timing could not have changed and messing with it will just cause more problems.

Sounds like it's just badly flooded. Sometimes oil isn't enough. A push start (with another vehicle) will always get it going.

NGKTECH

Thanks for all your help so far guys, you have made be a believer and all of your advice has worked well for me so far....

At first the engine sounded like it was spinning freely like it had no compression, which me not being familiar with rotaries scared me a bit lol. But after doing the deflood and adding oil it now is cranking slower and almost starting like a piston engine would.

My friend has a truck and a tow strap. I am going to have him try to pull me while I pop the clutch, I am hoping that'll work.

Probably wont get to try it until Sunday though here in Michigan it has been in the single digits the last few days and I dont have a garage

NGKTECH

Quick question guys, I was getting ready to try and pull start the car and was trying to listen for the fuel pump but I couldn't hear it turn on.

I pulled up all the carpet and the metal cover and when turning the key forward I couldn't hear it come on. I am thinking the pump may not be working or is not getting power anymore. Car has 183k miles on it so it makes sense that the pump may have crapped out.

My question is I should definitely be able to hear it when turning the key to start postion just like any other car right?

Is there an easy way to test it? The blue harness ran up through a cover near the shock tower so I may just need to pull that cover and disconnect it to test. Thanks.

Regards,

Brandon

NGKTECH

Following my trusty Haynes manual I jumped the 2 pin yellow connector near the pass side shock tower and turned the key and I could hear the pump running. According to the mnaual the pump should turn off after a few seconds which it is not. It just stays running which means it is not building pressure.

I went to the engine bay and I can hear a Pshhhhhhhhhhhh sound coming from the passenger side but don'\t see any fuel leaks.

I started wiggling the secondary fuel injectors and the injector closest to the front of car began leaking fuel from the top o-ring, it wasnt spraying but just leaking. I also pulled the vacuum line off the FPR to see if that was leaking and it was not. It\'s possible the injector may just be spraying right into the engine.


So the plan is this weekend to pull the secondary and have them rebuilt. My question is do the secondary's usually give more problems and leak more than the primarys?

I really dont want to have to remove the whole manifold to get at the primarys if I dont have to.

Also could this leak of the secondarys and lack of pressure be what is keeping the car from starting?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

As you've discovered, the pump only runs when the engine is running. There's a switch in the AFM.

As for the injectors, I'd recommend you just have them all cleaned. The secondaries are usually slightly more problematic, but if they are out, then pull the primaries as well. It also gives you the chance to replace all those leaking vacuum hoses underneath.

And don't forget your spark plugs! I hear there's this new capacitor plug that kicks ***...Pulstar or something like that. Sorry, couldn't resist.

NGKTECH

Aaron,

I'm not sure what to try next with this thing. I thought the pump was bad but now that I have checked it I know it works and from that injector leaking I know its reaching the rail lol as well the plugs come out smelling like gasoline. I also looked at a wire during cranking and the plug was sparking which I know isnt the right way tot test for spark but unfortunatley I dont have a spark tester.

I'm just not sure what elese could be keeping the car from starting. So if the air flow meter sends the signal to start the pump could I have a problem there or is there another sensor I can test to see if its bad?

The only thing I have left to try is to pull start the car which I am hoping will maybe help.

As far as the plugs they were replaced with brand new NGK's the day after it wouldnt start, so they havent been ran yet, periodically after cranking I have been pulling them and spraying brake cleaner to clean off the liquid fuel and oil, so I am good there. I am also taking home a NGK Power cable set to try and put on the car to make sure there isn't something weird with the wires in the car.

It's stumping me because the previous owner drove the car daily the week before I bought it and I picked it up and drove it home 30 miles, but now it won;t restart, I cant figure it out. What could go bad after two days of sitting?

NGKTECH

One other thing Aaron.

The haynes manual says that once jumped witht he key on it should shut off after a short while and that if it doesn't then it is not building adequate pressure.

Is this true or will the pump stay on indefinitely? I had the key over and jumped for probably close to 4 minutes and the pump never shut off, which was making me think that either the pump was bad or I had an injector spraying into the engine.

But if its NOT supposed to shut off then everything should be fine.

STILLDREAMING

HEY GUYS,

i purchesed the 88 se from NGKTECH got it home wednesday, started working on it late thursday. i got the car to run (actually i drove it last night) the problem i am having now with the car is that you have to keep it reved aboue 3000 rpm or it stalls out right away. i also own an 86 so i was comparing a few things on it and i noticed on the 88 right in front of the throttle the vavle that is their is very loose unlike the one on my 86 that runs great. i am assuming this controls air through the engine and am wondering would this be the reason the car has t be reved above 3grand it is getting too much air? any ideas would be great

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Does the car smoke horrible when it is running with black smoke?

Was the car ever compression tested and verified that it's in working condition?

STILLDREAMING

It smoked alot when i first got it started but is was flooded. then the smoke cleared up. i have not yet had it compression tested but when i drove it it had great power so i would think all is well. i will get a compression test done and post the results soon.

NGKTECH

Darrin,

Glad to see you got it running. Remember I told you about that check valve thingy that I broke? It was located right underneath the throttle body, it was a green and black check valve, maybe that not being there has something to do with the stalling? I never had that problem when I drove it home and thats the only thing that has changed.

Did you replace the starter? What did you have to do to get it running? Did you pull start it? Thanks

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

Has the line running through the check valve been capped? If not, there will be a vacuum leak since the rear half of that line is connected directly to one of the intake runners.

A vac leak at this location shouldn't be large enough to stall the engine, but it certainly won't help. I'd start looking for cracked/worn out vacuum lines that could add up to a big leak when working together.

STILLDREAMING

i dident replace the starter yet to work on it to get it running i did the ole smack it with a hammer trick i the starter hasent given me any troubles since then. It has a few vacum problems and it was very flooded. i did try to pull start it when i got it home on the dolly with no luck. a buddy came over the next day we were comparing a few things to my 86 made a few adjustments on the intake bolted the air tubes all back up and she started right up tapping the throtle. now their are a few more things i know need to be replaced but trnig to narrow everything down still.

STILLDREAMING

i have not checked that yet but it dose have a few vacuum problems i know of! i will check that tonight! thanks

yamahonkawazuki

aye. injecotr leak fires can be VEY catastrophic. be VERY careful m8

NGKTECH

I replaced the check valve thingy with a new piece of vacuum hose, so there is no leak but the check valve is no longer present.