Scott Pilkinton

Warning: Contains cries for help!

My son and I are trying to revive this car for his up and coming 16th birthday. The car belonged to my late uncle, who purchased the car new in '85. After owning the car for approx. 18 months, he hit a deer coming home one night. The damage only consisted of breaking the windshield, knocking the side mirror off, and putting a fairly good size dent in the rear quarter panel. For whatever (strange) reason, he parked it after the accident and it has sat in the same place (dry garage) up until about a month ago.

Here is what we have done so far:

- Oil/Filter change
- New motor oil squirted into all spark plug holes (before trying to start)
- Drain gas tank via fuel pump by jumping the test connector
- Replaced Battery
- Replaced Fuel Filter
- Replaced Air Filter
- Replaced Plugs (NGK 3129)
- Replaced Plug Wires
- Replaced Rotor

The motor turns over freely, but never offers any hint of starting. I have removed each of the plugs (one at a time) and reconnected the plug wires to perform spark tests. All plugs did have spark when turning the engine over. There was evidence of a little gas on the plugs when removed, which I wiped clean.

I really need some more ideas of things to look at. My remaining troubleshooting steps are few and would appreciate any guidance offered!

Thanks in advance!

Scott

Here are some pictures of the car:

Scott Pilkinton

Here is a video of us checking the plug firing. Check it out to see if there is anything you can get from it.

http://youtu.be/02_pR2FzEJE

Thanks!

Scott

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

engine sounds like it has good compression. was it gas on the plugs or residual oil? check fuses/fusable links, make sure the EFI computer is even getting power. secondly the fuel pump could be weak and/or the injectors could be clogged up from the fuel that has been sitting in the rail for 25 years, slowly gumming up the works

Scott Pilkinton

Sgt. thanks for taking a look! It appeared to be oil as it was black (and looked like oil). I forgot to put this on the original post - I did check all the fuses and fusable links and all were ok.

Fuel pump pressure has not been tested, will have to see if I have anything to test with. The fuel injectors are the part I haven't even attempted to do anything with. The only 'test' mentioned in the service manual is to listen with a scope to see if they were making noise. Does the rail and injectors need to come off?

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

if the injectors are firing, and fuel is flowing through them there should be a raw fuel smell in the exhaust, or when you were cranking the engine over with a spark plug out. first check the pressure. you can check it by testing directly at the fuel feed line, which will let you know overall pump health, but you should also check with a tester inline with the fuel feed, which will also help rule out a faulty regulator (lets hope its not that as its integral to the fuel rail)
If you listen to the injectors with a stethoscope, and you do hear clicking while cranking, that will verify that the ecu is firing the injectors. if all that checks out, and your not noticing any raw fuel smell out the tail pipe. i would suspect clogged injectors, in which the rail will have to be removed to get the injectors out. at that point you have a few options. find an auto store to flow test them, and see if they can be cleaned or, if they have a bad spray pattern or low flow, you can look into buying some new or reman'd injectors

ive gotten injectors out of newer rx-7's that have only sat for a few years, and the inlet sides were packed full of sediment from the old fuel drying up in the rail. I even had a few that were so blocked up that the pintles inside the injector wouldnt even budge or click when voltage was applied

Scott Pilkinton

Thanks Sgt. - you have given me new hope. I certainly don't smell any raw fuel of any kind. Sounds like there would be no mistaking it if there was fuel flowing. We will get those tests done over the weekend and report back. Thanks again!

86PICKUPSTICKS103

man that car is in awesome shape. is it 15,000 miles on the car an motor or just motor

Scott Pilkinton

On the car... My uncle bought it new. Still has the original tires on it.

The Laser

Wow, that car looks so much better cleaned up lol. Hope you get it running perfectly, it looks beautiful. Is it going to be your sons car when you're finished?

Scott Pilkinton

Thanks for the comments! Yep, it will be his first car. I'm hopeful we are on our way to getting it back to where it was before being stored (mechanically).

Scott Pilkinton

Well, I took the injectors out this weekend and had to quit working on the car shortly after - so they haven't been tested yet. Should be able to test and clean them tonight. My hopes are that they are clogged and not letting any fuel through. The resistance between the two posts on both of the injectors measured 4 Ohms, with the book stating that 1.5 - 3 Ohms were normal.

guitar_blues

i dont know much about injection so im not any help but i do want to offer a hell of a lot of good luck to you and your boy thats a beautiful car and im sure he's stoked about that being his first ride

bmeyer

iTrader: (5)

I was 14 when I got a GSL-SE for my first car from my Grandpa, had to do all the work myself and it was a great experience. Enjoy that car, it is very clean and you guys will definitely enjoy it.

Luthor

Oh man, what a beaut, your son sure is lucky! Best of luck!

Scott Pilkinton

Last night, I was able to finally test the injectors. The test harness was quite simple, I AA battery with a momentary switch inline, positive to one terminal(on the fuel injector), negative to the other. When I pushed the button - nothing(no noise), on either injector. After wondering whether the AA battery was enough to cycle the injector relay, the AA battery was replaced with a wall wart power supply (12V 950mA) that I cut the end off of and spliced in place of the battery holder. Still nothing - power was present in both tests when the button is pressed as I checked it with a voltmeter.

Is is common in a similar scenario for the fuel injectors to not 'click' at all? Is this what is considered a 'stuck' injector?

Can it be freed up? i.e. soaking them in something? If not, what would be the next recommended option?

As always, thanks for your help!

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

ive had injectors that were gummed up terribly from old fuel varnishing and evaporating. i could feel the pintle move but very slowly, and they wouldnt click. the only option remaining realistically would be to find somewhere local that will do injector cleaning services, or find an online store that will do cleaning, or buy some new or remanufactured injectors.

simply put, some injectors can be saved, others cant. regardless it will cost some money for services rendered, succesful or not, and/or shipping costs. my personal opinion would be to find some new/reman'd injectors (you will need your old dead injectors as a core for reman's)

injector cleaning will cost roughly $20/ea, while a reman injector will be $50-100/ea

Scott Pilkinton

Thanks Sgt - I have found some reman injectors and was hoping to hear back from someone before ordering, which you have kindly done! Thanks and I'll give an update when they get put in.

Scott

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

while the fuel rail is out you can try to clean it out some, get all the old build up and sludge outta there, and it wouldnt hurt to put a section of hose on the the fuel feed line and the other end into a catch can of some sort, and run the pump for a minute to evaluate what the fuel looks like and maybe flush any loose debris out of the lines.

good luck and keep us updated
Dan

Luthor

It just makes me so happy that you are reviving a first gen I haven't owned one myself for half a year yet, but I simply love these so much.

Scott Pilkinton

Well, I got an email today from the place I ordered a couple of reman fuel injectors:

-------------------
We are sorry, but the part(s) you ordered for order xxxx cannot be supplied from any of our warehouses or the manufacturer at this time. We did not charge your credit card and have notified our credit card processor to release the funds that were on hold for this order.
-------------------

Looks like I am going to have to try somewhere else!

Marx-7

Can't you get the old injectors sonicly cleaned?

Then they should be as good as new.

DeltaBlues

Nice car- I'm glad mine has a carb- I had a similar project- trying to get mine running after 7 years of sitting outside with a blown engine- I was surprised how the gas had turned to gunk- it was like tar in the feeder tubes in the gas tank- no gas pumping at all- drop the tank, clean it, clean the feeder tubes, change the hoses, get a new fuel pump, clean the gas lines- etc. etc. they will all need it after sitting for so long-
You're looking at complete refurbishment after sitting that long- after all, your son will be driving it!
It looks beautiful on the outside, but inside those gas lines, it's either gunk or rust-

DeltaBlues, '85 GSL, Panasports, Michelins, Flowmaster, more to come!

cavemag

Putting in new fuel lines, and dropping and cleaning the tank. wouldn't hurt either.

Scott Pilkinton

Hey Guys, I haven't abandoned the forum - just had other things going on and no time to work on the car until last weekend. With all the parts together (new injectors, upper & lower intake manifold gaskets, fuel lines, etc), we proceeded to put things back together. After getting the lower intake back on, I was putting some hoses back on and I reached and grabbed a pair of needle nose pliers off the car. Inside those pliers was a small piece of (metal) wire, that I didn't see. When swinging the pliers over to the engine, the jaws came open, and that small piece of wire (half inch long) fell right into one of the holes in the lower intake manifold. After immediately panicking, I pulled out the shop vac - covered up the other intake hole and stuck the vac over the hole the wire went down. I didn't hear it suck anything up - but now after thinking about it - I'm going to go back and go through all the crap in the shop vac to make sure I didn't get it. I really don't want to take the LIM back off - especially since it will mess up the new gasket.

Signed,
really bummed....

che'srx-7

iTrader: (5)

hey bro keep at it, GSL-SE's are sexy!