hypo7

Hi guys,

Was out taking my Fc for a drive today. All seemed well and i fine, I gave it a boost in 3rd and as i changed into 4th a noise happened similar to my blow off value.

As i slow down the whole car started to bunny hop so i took it out of gear. the Car started shaking like crazy! I now can't start it, Although it seems to want to start. It fires but dies and make a chattery noise, Something inside me is telling me its blown but a part of me is hoping its not.

I Also tryed crash starting it down the hill on the way back to my parents house, As i did it make another nosie which was the front pulley bolt, It came out and i found it on the road. This all sounds so bad.

Let me know what you think before i have to start pulling it apart.

Thanks in advance

Jamie

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

There is no "before you have to start pulling it apart" at this point. If the main pulley bolt came out while driving, you will have the pull the front cover at the VERY least. Whether you want to do it in the car or out is up to you, but I prefer doing that sort of thing with the engine out. There's all sorts of damage that could have been done with you using the clutch while the engine was spinning with the bolt out of it. Assessing that takes priority now.

Maybe you blew a hose off or something when your little escapade started, but as I said, that's a secondary problem now. Sort it out after you assess the front stack and get the engine to a point where it would be safe to try starting it.

Rotary Alkymist

I wouldn't be surprised if you found copper in your oil. I would drain the oil and check it for bearing debris. It's the bunny hop that worries me. If I had to bet money I'd say you've turned every bearing in your engine. Something seized to make you bunny hop.

Rotary Alkymist

Did you have temp issues? I mean, you would've lost a ton of oil right? I stare at my temp and oil pressure more than I stare at the road.

hypo7

I did notice once i had stop the it, my oil pressure gauge was through the roof. hopefully i will get a chance today to swing upto the olds and have a look at it, I will pull the front cover off and have a look and also i will drop the oil. What am i looking for in taking off the front cover?

So at this point trying to start it is a no go? The bearings letting go could be a very possible thing. there was a really noticeable rattle/chatter when i did try to start it. Are we now saying in my effort to start it once this happend i could of done more damage?

Rotary Alkymist

If you find debris your engine is toast.

hypo7

I had a break today and went up to my parents house and make a start pulling it apart, I dropped the oil first of all and it was fine, no copper or metal shavings. I then pulled the front cover off to find that the key way had slipped out of the front balancer. Could this be the reason it wanted to start, but once i would let the key go it had no weight to keep the rotors from rotating, and was only wanting to start because the starter motor was keeping it spinning? Could the rattle/chattering noise be the keyway grinding on the balancer, Altho it didn't have any marks? I have put it back together as much as i can for now. the water pump in it has seen better days so i want to get a new one while i am at this stage. Do you guys know where i can find the gaskets that hold the water pump, Front cover and the the water pump housing to block?

Could something as simple as the front balancer not being attached though the key way stop the engine from going?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

If you didn't pull the front counterweight off, then you're going to have to. The thrust bearings, washer and spacer are all behind it, and assuming they are not FUBAR'd, they will need to be oriented in a specific way in order for you to put it back together correctly (which is the reason I like to have the engine out). Rattling and chattering could be bearing or could be things hitting the oil pump gear and chain. Sadly, it's anyone's guess.

Take a look here: Front Engine Parts, Counterweights, Pulleys (the photo on the right will show you what I mean).

Rotary Alkymist

Those gaskets are available at Mazda. Probably the cheapest price you will find.

The key being out is definitely why it wouldn't start. You're CAS won't turn without it and even worse, neither will your oil pump.
No shavings in oil is good.
I would put it back together and measure end play on the e-shaft before you close it up. Time the CAS. New oil. Then try to start it. The bunny hop still worries me. Something got really hot really quick.

hypo7

What is the correct way they need to be put back together so it is sweet, I haven't taken the front assembly apart i just relined it to suit the keyway. will it not of held the correct order it needs to be?

hypo7

Alright i will check with mazda here on gaskets, I probably need to find a parts number list as they are useless here. Could the bunny hop be cause from engine shutting off while still in gear? Almost the same as a stalling hop? How do i measure the end play on e shaft?

Rotary Alkymist

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

This will not work. As I said, you have to pull it apart and put it together the correct way. The order of the parts will not have changed, but by now, the thrust bearings, plate and washer (assuming they are in tact) are definitely out of alignment and you are guaranteed to damage something if you proceed without addressing it.

If there is a way to put this stuff together with the engine in the car, I do NOT know it. I have only had to deal with assembly and setting endplay after building an engine, so they are never yet in the car. Given the procedure I am aware of, I don't know how it could be done with the engine installed, but I won't say it can't be done as fact. Now it is somewhat reasonable to say that you're using the same parts and thus putting it back together with them should yield a correct endplay measurement, but you have not yet checked the parts that matter. So that's moot for now.

What I will say, is given your experience with this, the engine likely needs to come out. Also, the best pieces of advice given thus far are: (1) get the FSM and (2) consult with someone that knows what to do. I have nothing against you learning to do it yourself, and for that there are a few GOOD rebuild videos on YouTube, but you'd probably have to watch the whole thing since the endplay is one of the last steps of a rebuild. Additionally, there will be support for you here on the board.

hypo7

What do you guys mean about FSM? I have a haynes maunal which walks you through a rebuild so i will have a look at that. Sadly i am the only one out of all my mates that works on cars and i dont know of anyone around that can help without having it take it somewhere and spend some money. I will watch some rebuild videos on youtube also and try to figure out what is involved

Rotary Alkymist

I would agree with Diabolical that if its your first time taking the engine out is the way to go. What makes it hard with the engine in is it's sideways and getting the spacer inside the back thrust bearing is a pain but it is possible. It will take some patience to get it in. I cannot begin to explain the importance of your spacer installation. You need to understand the anatomy of that section of the engine to understand what we're talking about. This is a do or die procedure.

Rotary Alkymist

FSM=Factory Service Manual. Better than Haynes and available for free online.

hypo7

Do you have a link to the FSM, I Have read the section in the haynes maunal about changing the oil pump which also states how to put the thrust bearing in. I might be new to rotary but i have works on serval engines before so i'm not completely new. hopefully with background other on others it will help me with this. Ill do my fair share of research before i give it a go. I would like to try doing it with the engine in but if all else fails i will have to take it out. I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me i would be stuck otherwise.

hypo7

What what i have read the easy way to check the end play is with a dial indicator off the flywheel, Would both of uses agree with that? Also in a video i have watch they put a spring inside the front pulley where the bolt hold the front pulley on. I have lost mine, What are they there for and where do i find a replacement one. I may aswell pull the engine out and go from there

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

Get the FSM even if you have a Haynes. It's free and as you would expect, it's more thorough. You can't have enough reference materials. You can get it from www.foxed.ca

As far as the job itself is concerned, I did a little digging, so you apparently you can check endplay with the engine installed. In THIS THREAD J9fd3s says it can be done, and I trust his judgment. So as long as you can get the bearings, spacer and plate installed correctly and keep them from moving before you bolt the front cover back on, then I guess you can have at it. I still think it's easier with the engine out, but at this point that is merely an opinion, so get your grain of salt.

I am including this thread about THRUST BEARING DAMAGE just to show you how important this is.

hypo7

diabolical1 you have hit the nail on the head, The trust bearing is toast. I found it odd how when i pulled it apart the spacer was in the front behind the balance wight instead of behide the bearing housing.
I have tired to upload some picture so finger crossed it has work, this is my first time trying to upload I have also added a picture of the shaft as it looks like something in there has been damaged near the cut out? diabolical1 I cant thank you enough, you are my rotor god at the moment

hypo7

I am having troubles uploading photos, It has me stumped

hypo7

hypo7

Does anyone know if the spacer with the code s is factory?

Rotary Alkymist

Your rear counterweight is most likely damaged from thrust which will make it impossible to set the end play properly. I'm just saying the potential is there. If you do get it back together and your end play is wrong then you'll know that your rear counterweight is damaged. The engine naturally thrusts forward and with your end play being way off your engine was able to damage itself at the rear.

Rotary Alkymist

I wouldn't even put it back together. Haul the engine and do it right.