yea, you dont have to tell me that, something about some of the chevy guys, they just dont care

most of the people I know, cept those listed above, do that on all there cars, any car out there should be treated as such, regardless of engine

so i guess you dont watch youtube, or know anyone with built motors

i am currently doing what the manufacturer says, AND my friend with his FD with close to 400hp is doing around what the manu. said dispite the extra ponies....big rumor also has it that certain mods give you decent mileage, this has yet to be proven nor disproven...therefore you also have no info other than what YOU experience, as i am also stating.....im doing the same thing as you are doing, showing real life experience as data. its all the info you need, its all the info I need

as to 6 bangers, the majority of them do around the ball park of 18-26, which is not far off of what the FD can do and what its specified in doing....especially since its been said by alot of great mechanics in my life, that 6's get the worste of both worlds, not enough power and not good enough mileage.

 

So, if you get a 13B NA model then the car should stay NA right? That particular car was designed to be be NA and all of the supporting features on it were designed around a NA platform, right? Also, by your logic, throwing in a 3 rotor is just as much of a sin as putting the LS1 into a car. Hell, modifying the car in any way is tantamount to treason because you are modifying what the origional engineers had intended for the car.


Has nothing to do with a particular type of owner. It is just about the amount of brain cells they have killed in their lives so far. There is no rocket science to understanding what a car can and cannot handle. The amount of stupidity needed to actually cause that amount of damage leads me to believe that Darwin is rolling in his grave because these individuals are actually still alive.

Not necissarily. The reason someone would buy a car like a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry is that they dont want to have to treat their car like a race car. They want to just have to do regular oil changes and maintainence and not have to worry about anything else for atleast 100-150k miles.

I know plenty of people with very powerful cars. I know people who have monster turbos, some that run nitrous out the *** and some that have stroker kits in their cars. Hell, I know a guy down in DC who runs an absolutely nasty built motor in his vette that is capable of up to a 600 shot of nitrous. I also know alot of people that like to talk out of their *** as well. Everything is relative and if you have enough money, you can make anything fast. Hell, with 15k, you could embarass 99% of this board with a Chevy Cavalier or Saturn coupe.

Rumors are just rumors until they are proven to work and work reliably.

This may have been true 10 years ago but I think that Nissan engineers may challenge you on these assumptions. Considering the VQ35 is found in almost every model of car they make, I doubt they chose to go this route because it lacks power and gas mileage.

 

Last i read the FD was estimated at 17-24, so its not far off from V6's,
the maxima's "VQ" engine's estimated gas mileage is 19-25, the Z's is 18-25, the 09 Camry does 19 to 28 which is in the same range that was estimated for the FD....

as to v6 design its always been like this:

Power
I4<V6<V8

Gas mileage
I4>V6>V8

there always "ok" at everything but never amazing

the only contender that even breaks the mold would be the new skyline, but i was unable to find the specs on that car, at the given time

they are not asumption they are fact. I4's will generally do better on gas, and V8's will generally have more power. v6's are stuck in the middle.

just think about this for a minute........



ready?......





you dont always have to say the last word, sometime, like me, your wrong

 

I know that I am wrong on a regular basis. It comes with being human. And no I dont always have to have the last word. However, I will continue to debate if I feel that there is still more to be said.

I am not saying it is impossible to get 24mpg out of an FD but I will believe it when I see it.

From what I gather you are a "cup is half empty" type of person.
Your argument is a double sided blade
By saying that the V6 has less mpg than a 4 cylinder and less power than an 8 cylinder, you are also bringing up the fact that a 6 cylinder gets better gas mileage than a 8 cylinder and more power than a 4 cylinder.

Usually, when people talk about crappy 6 cylinders, they usually bring up American made models. The American 6 has always been akin to the Japanese 4. They were the junk engines that you threw in your base model car so that people who couldnt afford the V8 model could still feel like they were driving a sports car.

However, this does not hold true for the rest of the world. 6 cylinders have long been viewed as strong platforms by forigen tuners.

Here are some of these "sad" 6 bangers out there:
The Porsche Flat 6 - I am sure that many GT3 owners are complaining about how crappy their engines are
The E36 and E46 M3 6

And then there were the 6's found in the halo cars of the 90's
The Supra's 2JZ-GTE
The 300zx's VQ30-DETT
The Skyline's RB26-DETT
The VR-4's 6G72
The NSX's C30A

 

I4<V6<V8<I6<rotary<toaster .....jk

i like rotary because its fun plain and simple, its a blast to drive, i think thats what rx7 is about...fc anyways
mpg depends on the motor design, c6 vette gets upper 20s highway thats impressive it being a 7Liter

 

if you build a 2 rotor the correct way u can run 11s a 3 rotor no problem and a 4 rotor NA got banned from lemans because it blew every other car out of the water. but just got on youtube and watch 11 second rotaries.

 

if you build a 2 rotor the correct way u can run 11s a 3 rotor no problem and a 4 rotor NA got banned from lemans because it blew every other car out of the water. just got on youtube and watch 11 second rotaries.

 

it's been done before.
Sorry, it was 11:45am, since I work third shift that's like 3am to me. I was tired and typoed, and meant to say "such a boner"...tube steak....

 

The only thing i find funny is if you went on like ls1tech and someone put a different motor in a camaro or trans am and it was faster/more efficient everyone over there would be all...

"Wow man thats awesome, great idea!" "How come i never thought of that"
"That thing is going to haul ***" "Nice upgrade"

Not here though, most people call for an exorcism over here.

 

heres the thing, i purposely did not bring up I6's, i kept this with V's for this reason, inline's ARE amazing!! they produce far more torque and power than anny V6 ever could....the supra and the GTR prove that time and time again...hell chevy uses it in there base trailblazer because of its torque.....

however the 300's engine is a horrible engine, in multiple ways.....annoying to set adjustments...everything....literally an kind of engine work is difficult to do....i know for a fact that its quicker to pull the engine than to do a timing belt on them...and they have a mean tendancy to kill there lifters, EVEN after a new rebuilt...i cant say much about the other because i never worked on them but after working on that ****...i would MUCH rather have an inline that a V....there better in every way that ive seen...i dont even consider them in the same class

 

If you get my 2-rotor NA FC into the 11's without a power adder (using the engine that's in the car) I will give you the car.

EDIT: You can even bring in another 2-rotor engine to do it if you have one.

 

i believe the fastest running (2?, 3? or 4?) rotor is doing mid 6's, but the majority of them ive seen have been running around mid 12's to mid 9's...whats Ernie doing like 9's now?


Actually, as much as i respect the legendary 787B...the truth of the matter is that there was a **** LOAD of luck involved, no matter what it would have placed high up in the ranks, it won because the leader "blew his gearbox" as they say...the car also had issues with its electrical units, and i believe in testing the car it caught fire.


Though their public reasoning, which is rather shitty, especially for todays times, was of unfair power to weight ratio's especially when the short block should have been about 250 lb's give or take.... Correct me if im wrong but i believe the true reason they banned it was because when they tore the engine down for post-race inspection they found that the engine could have possibly lasted a whole extra 24hrs.

this is all based on memory of reading this so i could be wrong....or off....whatever

And Crash Test Joey, not saying its easy...but i would think its possible....ive seen this FB with an S4 n/a engine doing 12.5 with a **** launch.....i doubt it would be cheap but i dont see why it cant be done.....then they put the juice on but kept leaning out and couldnt get a good run the rest of the night.

 

Joey, its not even worth it with that kid. He is an absolute moron as evidenced by his post looking for "street racing spots". You might as well take a drill to your frontal lobe.


Heghast - I understand where you are comming from with your dislike of the VQ in the 300 but that is more of an issue of engine bay design than the motor itself. What I am trying to say is that there is no definitive platform to build on or everyone would be doing it.

 

What I don't get is why this is the least bit surprising.

With every LSI/13B thread, you've got RX7/rotary fans who come in and pour scorn on the V8 conversion, and then the V8 conversion guys take offense. The former is completely predictable and normal... the latter is what I don't get. If you converted your car to a V8, you likely did so because you wanted to CHANGE the character of the car. Don't get offended when people accuse you of doing exactly that.

Does a V8 steal the "soul" or bastardize an RX7? OF COURSE IT DOES. How could it NOT?! The RX7 is synonomous with rotary power, and it's an intrinsic and unique part of it's character. No less so that a flat-six in a 911, or a V12 in a front-engined Ferrari, or a straight-six in an older BMW. Jeez, some Porsche purists don't like the V8's PORSCHE put in their cars (928's). Drop a Camaro motor in any of those cars, and see how much love you get on THEIR forum. You'd get **** on worse than you ever would here, and no "efficiency" or "reliability" or "affordability" arguement will change that one iota.

Now, if you didn't LIKE the soul and character of the car, FINE. It's your car, I've got zero problem with your making it what you want it to be... I think some of the conversions are REALLY cool, like JimLabs (if it's ever finished) or Hyperion's... but just be able to admit that you've made it something else on purpose.... to a degree that's NOT the same as adding a turbo to an N/A car, bolting on upgrades, or doing a 20B. It's not like the rotary was just some generic inline 4 you replaced with a bigger one or a V6.

 

Considering a stock N/A FC run's something in the neighborhood of a 17.5 second quarter miles, I'd say it would take quite a bit to get it into the 11's. My offer still stands.



Untrue. It's an engine. Plain and simple. There is no soul or mystical spirit inside it.

 

Bullshit.

Per my other examples, the flat six Porsche, V12 Ferrari, or even the pushrod V8 related to Corvettes or Cobras, it is not just an engine. The motor in a Camry is just an engine.

Motor configurations are absolutely part and parcel to the brand, mystique, and unique nature of any noteable sportscar nameplate, of which the RX7 is one.

 

^ i figure it was gona happene anyway so why not make it me, to switch things up.......

ive seen people put mopar engines in vettes, even bigblocks in ferrari's and different engines in porsche's everyone does it, its like the people that get the delorean and put rotors in them.....theres always going to be people who think the stock engine should only be in there,

and then theres going to be the people who dont give two ***** whats in there as long as its cheap and makes alot of power...the kind of people who just like the look of the car....not the design........

so regardless of whats special about it, it gets done, it gotten done and will always be done...you cant make everyone think the samething....

im not very fond of the swap....BUT...i respect it for what its worth....

just imagine you (lets say you have an FC)roll up to a red light...right next to you is a 80 monte carlo with a 350 small in it.....hes thinking hes all bigshit and all that....and you roll up in your little FC and you give him the nod.

just think of the look thats gona be on his face the next time your both at a red light......

#1 sleeper

 

[QUOTE=helghast7;8193386...the kind of people who just like the look of the car....not the design........

[/QUOTE]

the kind of people who drive civics with bodykits, flames and 20 in chrome rims ... ohh and i forgot giant wings

i think aluminum v8 is fine but cast iron just screws up the weight distribution too much which could be fine depending on what you're doing

 

Pete - I get what you are saying but you are just talking about an identifier rather than anything else. But, look at it this way, things change and not always for the worst.
Chevy is introducing the ZR again and it will be a supercharged V8 rather than just upping the displacement. This is a big deal for vette owners
BMW introduced the M3 with a V8 in it. They have been 6 cyl engines since the cars inception. Again, this is a big deal.

It really comes down to what you call a car's soul or I guess you could say, "its reason for being"

If you say that the RX-7 is purely defined by its engine then I think you are discrediting all the engineering that went into the full design of the car.
Personally (and this is my own opinion) I think the purpose of the car is as a corner carver that was meant to have decent power and be extremely agile. So, for me, putting a lightweight v8 in the car does nothing to ruin this purpose.

People are always going to throw themselves into different camps. Hell, look at drag racing. You could say that drag racers kill the "soul" of the car because they are basically turning it into an engine with wheels and it is no longer agile.

In the end, unless you keep the car stock, someone is going to have a problem with the way you modify your car.

 

**** a rotary. Drop in an LSx and drive your car unlike the people in the FS threads parting out their car because it blew up on the dyno (multiple times).

I saw it put best in the other debate thread:

 

thats because SOME people know what a true hot rod is, some people know that this hobby started out long before there was internet and catalogs to order parts from, people shoe horned larger motors into lighter cars to make them faster and make them thier own. They took what they could find and made it work for them.

I think people putting V8s into RX7s was a rebirth of the vehicle, too many of these were ending up in the junkyards and being parted out because people did not want to deal with the motors anymore.
Now we have people taking FCs and FDs that are one step away from the junkyard and they are transplanting LS1's into them, doing suspension, painting them- and presto we have $20K+ FDs on the market again, heck clean FCs with LS1s that are clean command $13k+

If you think that just because a car came with one motor it should stay that way you have no clue what hot rodding is.

 

I fully agree with you on reviving the cars, if it weren't for the ls1 guys, how many of these FD rollers on their last legs with shot suspension etc would become of anything. We take the cars, put a new engine in and refresh the rest of the car and bring them back to life.

Personally i bought my car with an engine bay caked with so much oil and grease it was disgusting, the wiring harness was shredded in places. The interior was an abomination, the seats were ripped console plastics broke, carpet probably hadnt been cleaned in years, how about this for you, i took apart the door panels and cleaned out the inside of the door frames and found about 50 club flyers from new york city from the mid 90's!!! I'm guessing they stuck them on the windows of cars and they slid down inside of them.

I took the entire interior out and found so many wires that had nothing to do with the car, i then sound deadened the entire interior and then repaired/replaced/resurfaced every single damaged part. I removed the engine with intent to refresh it clean it all up and put it back in the next summer, but with it out i began cleaning the bay i painted it as it was looking shoddy, i wrapped all the wiring harness' with new electrical tape to give them a refreshed look... and then i began to read.

I stumbled upon the ls1 swap and after reading some reviews/ weighing out the pros and pros i was sold. Reliability, power, less down time, less worrying about grenading my engine, more aftermarket support, better gas mileage, not having to drive 400 miles or tow for a tune. (Believe me when i say that the distance to the tuners and anyone capable of working on a rotary was a major sway in my decision.. i cant afford money or time wise to have my car towed back and forth to the rotary shop which there is none near me)

Now here i am 4 months later... probably two weeks from firing up my ls1 for the first time.. the interior completely refreshed.. the engine bay painted... new exhaust, low mileage engine/transmission. Most importantly plans to paint the car next year and get some new wheels. The car will have been almost completely refinished.

The rotary guys should be thanking the ls1 guys for keeping these cars on the road.. had i not bought this car, how long would it have been before it was even worse shape and sold for even less than i bought it for to some kid who wanted a cheap hot rod.. You think he would have taken the time/money to bring it back? Naw, then how long before he was sick of the piece of garbage and couldnt afford to keep it before he sold it to someone else who wanted a cheap car..how many owners/beating before the car just isnt worth anything?

 

bump this post! finally someone gets it

 

I dont think rotary guys owe LS1 guys anything. I just think that the "holier than thou" attitude on both sides needs to be dropped. I also think that there are too many keyboard warriors on this forum. I have met maybe 1-2 people in real life that have even slightly disagreed with the swap and they werent even that adament about it.

In the end though, the LS1 swap benefits even rotary guys in that it brings alot of people who have fabrication background into the picture who may never have been there prior. People like Hyperion who have brought new products to the market that are solutions to both motors alike. His anti-slosh in tank cover was a brilliant idea.

In stead of bitching about who is the most faithful to the cause, how about (and here is a crazy guy) we actually try to work to revive the market for our cars? Right now most of the stuff out there are cheaper copies of stuff that has already been done. It would be nice to see some new products hit the market that are actually updates for our car rather than copies of something created 5+ years ago.

Our cars have a timeless look to them and with a few updates here and there are just as competitive as they have always been.

 

Does this mean I'm going to Mazda hell?




Oh wait, I forgot, I'm already there because my car has a rotary in it now.