Do race plugs make more power? Well, not really
04-26-11, 07:19 PM
#51
4th string e-armchair QB
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Bay, Ontario
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allen did you get any of those BUE's yet to try? If not let me get a 10-pack shipped to you to save me the $30 international shipping, and you can send me 4 and keep the rest? 
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the ground strap orientation. It is important because unlike the stock strap-less design, it will start the combustion in a certain direction. I had a chat with a gentleman named MaxT on the old TeamFC3S website about clocking the groundstrap on the NGK race plugs. The website is now offline and I can't find what he said though, although I believe he told me that power went up slightly and knock readings went down with the ground strap perpendicular to the apex seal, with the gap facing up on the leading (versus turned 180). He managed this by shimming the plug out.
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the ground strap orientation. It is important because unlike the stock strap-less design, it will start the combustion in a certain direction. I had a chat with a gentleman named MaxT on the old TeamFC3S website about clocking the groundstrap on the NGK race plugs. The website is now offline and I can't find what he said though, although I believe he told me that power went up slightly and knock readings went down with the ground strap perpendicular to the apex seal, with the gap facing up on the leading (versus turned 180). He managed this by shimming the plug out.
04-26-11, 11:40 PM
#52
Allen did you get any of those BUE's yet to try? If not let me get a 10-pack shipped to you to save me the $30 international shipping, and you can send me 4 and keep the rest?
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the ground strap orientation. It is important because unlike the stock strap-less design, it will start the combustion in a certain direction. I had a chat with a gentleman named MaxT on the old TeamFC3S website about clocking the groundstrap on the NGK race plugs. The website is now offline and I can't find what he said though, although I believe he told me that power went up slightly and knock readings went down with the ground strap perpendicular to the apex seal, with the gap facing up on the leading (versus turned 180). He managed this by shimming the plug out.
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the ground strap orientation. It is important because unlike the stock strap-less design, it will start the combustion in a certain direction. I had a chat with a gentleman named MaxT on the old TeamFC3S website about clocking the groundstrap on the NGK race plugs. The website is now offline and I can't find what he said though, although I believe he told me that power went up slightly and knock readings went down with the ground strap perpendicular to the apex seal, with the gap facing up on the leading (versus turned 180). He managed this by shimming the plug out.
04-27-11, 12:00 PM
#54
Allen did you get any of those BUE's yet to try? If not let me get a 10-pack shipped to you to save me the $30 international shipping, and you can send me 4 and keep the rest?
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the ground strap orientation. It is important because unlike the stock strap-less design, it will start the combustion in a certain direction. I had a chat with a gentleman named MaxT on the old TeamFC3S website about clocking the groundstrap on the NGK race plugs. The website is now offline and I can't find what he said though, although I believe he told me that power went up slightly and knock readings went down with the ground strap perpendicular to the apex seal, with the gap facing up on the leading (versus turned 180). He managed this by shimming the plug out.
One thing nobody seems to have mentioned is the ground strap orientation. It is important because unlike the stock strap-less design, it will start the combustion in a certain direction. I had a chat with a gentleman named MaxT on the old TeamFC3S website about clocking the groundstrap on the NGK race plugs. The website is now offline and I can't find what he said though, although I believe he told me that power went up slightly and knock readings went down with the ground strap perpendicular to the apex seal, with the gap facing up on the leading (versus turned 180). He managed this by shimming the plug out.
I have not ordered any yet.
04-28-11, 05:57 PM
#56
good one. I just wanted people to know the correct name for it is all. I think for older v6 and v8 engines where the plugs are on the side of the cylinder head, indexing helps more than an engine like a rotary where the plug is already in the center.Sorry to hear about your back and thanks for your service. Just trying to put a little fire under the feet. Let us know what you find out. Too bad you live so far away, otherwise I would drive over and throw them in for you.
04-28-11, 07:56 PM
#57
4th string e-armchair QB
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Bay, Ontario
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always mix up the names of things so I figured it would have made me look even more stupider getting it wrong. I think it's the french in me 
04-29-11, 10:30 AM
#59
BDC Motorsports
interesting. here is the mazda graph from the SAE papre.
the "air gap" plug is the racing/rx8 style and the S.D. or surface discharge is the FC/FD style
engine is a 12A p-port. as you can see they tried CDI and a normal ignition AT THE SAME VOLTAGE/POWER and the engine made more hp with CDI
the "air gap" plug is the racing/rx8 style and the S.D. or surface discharge is the FC/FD style
engine is a 12A p-port. as you can see they tried CDI and a normal ignition AT THE SAME VOLTAGE/POWER and the engine made more hp with CDI
with the race plugs in an NA engine, they were recommended for the racing engines. so its a 300hp 13B running 9000rpms for up to 24 hours straight. so its not just HP, but HP/time. a street car sees a different duty cycle
04-29-11, 05:47 PM
#60
The car does drive quite well with them in. I think they will be my go to plug from now on. Drives just like it does with the Rx-8 plugs at half the cost. If anyone in SoCal has access to a dyno I'll be the guinney and strap my car on for some compairison runs, see if there is any diference in power.
06-22-11, 07:56 PM
#64
Vintage sportcars
This
and
Makes me wonder if it would raise the compression ratio enough to get a small power gain.
Even considering no power gain the BUE still is cheap as hell, even if I have to change them every 1000 miles, a steal !
BUR9EQ s are 80 $ a set (here) of 4 If youre lucky.
This being said, I will dig further:
With the NGK BUE there is no isualtor/housing gap of the plug.
When I look at my BUR7/9EQ s, even they may stick almost a mm closer to the rotor as a BUE, they have still that isulator/housing space inside.
(Of course the hotter the plug the bigger this space)
Considering this, and the fact that the NA rotor has higher compression, just imagine a rotor in its compression phase, there is not much space left,
so a small amount of compression gain due to closer plugs might be possible.
Truly unique that you can change compression ratio this way on a rotary engine without reducing intake "stroke/phase" volume.
As for removing of the washers, I am sure that it will put the BUE again 1 mm closer, almost perfectly.
Does it not harm plugs when mounted without washers ? Never considered this doing on an engine ...
What do you use as anti seize compound on your plugs ?
Steven
I asked him how it was possible and he said that the porcelain contacted the shell for the full length of the plug and you could not make a plug any cooler.
actually hell, all 4 were less than 1 Rx8 plug. LOL
I'm going to take off the washer and see how close to the face they mount in the housing. Every bit of compression helps right? LOL
I'm going to take off the washer and see how close to the face they mount in the housing. Every bit of compression helps right? LOL
Even considering no power gain the BUE still is cheap as hell, even if I have to change them every 1000 miles, a steal !
BUR9EQ s are 80 $ a set (here) of 4 If youre lucky.
This being said, I will dig further:
With the NGK BUE there is no isualtor/housing gap of the plug.
When I look at my BUR7/9EQ s, even they may stick almost a mm closer to the rotor as a BUE, they have still that isulator/housing space inside.
(Of course the hotter the plug the bigger this space)
Considering this, and the fact that the NA rotor has higher compression, just imagine a rotor in its compression phase, there is not much space left,
so a small amount of compression gain due to closer plugs might be possible.
Truly unique that you can change compression ratio this way on a rotary engine without reducing intake "stroke/phase" volume.
As for removing of the washers, I am sure that it will put the BUE again 1 mm closer, almost perfectly.
Does it not harm plugs when mounted without washers ? Never considered this doing on an engine ...
What do you use as anti seize compound on your plugs ?
Steven
06-27-11, 08:46 AM
#67
Vintage sportcars
I just want to give a small update:
I ordered 4 BUE plugs at the local dealer, was a bit of a pain to explain I need THOSE plugs and none else
i said it was for an experimental motor...
They were about 9$ (7€) /piece and were on special order. ...
Also planned a Dyno run with my stock FC, only problem seems to find a Dyno here...
Will post updates when my stuff arrives.
I ordered 4 BUE plugs at the local dealer, was a bit of a pain to explain I need THOSE plugs and none else
i said it was for an experimental motor...
They were about 9$ (7€) /piece and were on special order. ...
Also planned a Dyno run with my stock FC, only problem seems to find a Dyno here...
Will post updates when my stuff arrives.
07-12-11, 10:37 PM
#68
well if you are running only 0.015" gap and lose power at 0.020" then you must already be starting with a very weak ignition from the get go. Kind of blew me away to see this.
I run the race plugs in a Renesis at 0.059" gap leading with good results; the factory gap range for the RX-8 is 0.046" - 0.049" with 0.059" as the recommended max on the leading side
If you have a strong ignition you may want to rerun this test as it's preferable to use the largest gap possible short of misfiring and then see what the results are .... after all they are racing plugs and most racers will beef up their ignition systems, which means there is more voltage to jump a larger gap and expose a larger spark to the mixture.
I run the race plugs in a Renesis at 0.059" gap leading with good results; the factory gap range for the RX-8 is 0.046" - 0.049" with 0.059" as the recommended max on the leading side
If you have a strong ignition you may want to rerun this test as it's preferable to use the largest gap possible short of misfiring and then see what the results are .... after all they are racing plugs and most racers will beef up their ignition systems, which means there is more voltage to jump a larger gap and expose a larger spark to the mixture.
07-20-11, 08:33 AM
#69
Rotary Freak
I just want to give a small update:
I ordered 4 BUE plugs at the local dealer, was a bit of a pain to explain I need THOSE plugs and none else
i said it was for an experimental motor...
They were about 9$ (7€) /piece and were on special order. ...
Also planned a Dyno run with my stock FC, only problem seems to find a Dyno here...
Will post updates when my stuff arrives.
I ordered 4 BUE plugs at the local dealer, was a bit of a pain to explain I need THOSE plugs and none else
i said it was for an experimental motor...
They were about 9$ (7€) /piece and were on special order. ...
Also planned a Dyno run with my stock FC, only problem seems to find a Dyno here...
Will post updates when my stuff arrives.
Man, I am pathetic when I get all excited about small stuff like this, LOL.
Eric
08-09-11, 07:46 PM
#71
Rotary Freak
Ran with some race plugs (wanted to use the BUE's but forgot the special plug socket), last weekend at Shannonville. My buddy had a used set of the race 11.5's and lent them to me. Holey freak' they changed the engine. The car revved cleanly to well over 9,000 rpm and made enough torque to spin the rear tires in second gear at 3500 rpm coming out of a very tight corner on a consistent basis. The car was transformed and the engine woke up and revved clean with no misfires.
Granted my car is a 1/2 bridge with a 4 ITB setup, but it was a total transformation with no other changes than the plugs. I am running a completely stock coil setup as well triggered by my Megasquirt.
Truthfully, a was a bit giddy driving the car as it was such a big change.
Eric
Granted my car is a 1/2 bridge with a 4 ITB setup, but it was a total transformation with no other changes than the plugs. I am running a completely stock coil setup as well triggered by my Megasquirt.
Truthfully, a was a bit giddy driving the car as it was such a big change.
Eric
10-14-11, 12:31 PM
#72
Vintage sportcars
Bringing back an old but interesting thread.
I was able to get my hands on a set of NGK BUE (Nr.: 2322)
I tried to test fit them into a TII S5 housing I have around. Maybe its just the TII housing which are different ...
Somehow I am unable to put them all the way in due to the shorter body they have.
There is just no place left for the socket to grip on.
What kind of special socket are you using ?? Mazdatrix sells one which is way over 90$ *ouch*.
There really is not much space left around the plugs.
What about grinding a standart socket down on the mill ?
Steven
Edit:
Ah I forgot to tell that I can't test them right now cause my FC is preparing for the hibernation and new paint.
I was able to get my hands on a set of NGK BUE (Nr.: 2322)
I tried to test fit them into a TII S5 housing I have around. Maybe its just the TII housing which are different ...
Somehow I am unable to put them all the way in due to the shorter body they have.
There is just no place left for the socket to grip on.
What kind of special socket are you using ?? Mazdatrix sells one which is way over 90$ *ouch*.
There really is not much space left around the plugs.
What about grinding a standart socket down on the mill ?
Steven
Edit:
Ah I forgot to tell that I can't test them right now cause my FC is preparing for the hibernation and new paint.
11-07-11, 02:44 AM
#75
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mandurah Western Australia
Posts: 43
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which is why manifolds made for all out power have the fuel injectors outside the runners, pointing straight down.
That, and the fuel mass actually helps VE, added inertia to the slug of air/foam in the intake tract.
And there's a bit of an "air door" effect when you are injecting across or tangential to the airflow, as well.
Oh yes, I have a list of things I want to play with for my next intake manifold, I really do...
That, and the fuel mass actually helps VE, added inertia to the slug of air/foam in the intake tract.
And there's a bit of an "air door" effect when you are injecting across or tangential to the airflow, as well.
Oh yes, I have a list of things I want to play with for my next intake manifold, I really do...