Ignore the bit about going mental, that was just the lead not being connected properly. I will report back, but now I think I've tested both VB921s, and BIM024s in COP with success!

Of course you can also do what maui has suggested

 

Not one piece of documentation I have read has suggested doing that :O

I will test my theory, and if its not good then I will try what you just suggested

 

sorry jobro where have you wired everything up to on the board and are you running out put a b c d with sucess ?

could you take some pics of your board and how you have wired this up might help in my understanding

 

Comments Ken? I don't want to spit another seal!!!

 

Hopefully Ken can confirm what I'm doing will or won't work, he told me in the past he wasn't sure if when you had Rotary Trailing Enabled, if you could invert spark output and get a good clean signal.

Now hes talking about hanging the VB921s off the LEDs with a pullup :S

 

my reason for running it like this is once i have set it up i want to leave it i dont wanna have ignitors or 2nd gen gear i want all brand new bosch coils as it fitts with my setup my rx3 wag is completely deloomed engine bay i want everything in top condition looks wise as i am so fussy it aint funny

 

so for a system that is 3 coils 1 two post leading and two trailing coils

you would hook R26Lead, 27 Trail, 29Trail to a 680ohm for leading VB and a 330ohm for each of the trailing VB's x 2 as there is one on the board correct then from Vb"s to associated Coil pack

so where R26, 27, 29 do we remove these resistors i am guessing no

 

and for four coils you would use th A B C D out puts with 3 extra Vb's on B C and D

with ony 330ohm Resistors

next ? how does the ecu know what it is firng to when firing the A B C D outputs


Thanks guys this is really helpfull

 

Look at the picture that says Wasted COP wiring example. You connect the input side of that circuit to R26

R27 and R29 are the two trailing COP sections.

They both get wired like the picture that says VB921 to drive ignition coils (arr V3.0 Schematics)

You can see where it says Coil B from a V3.0 comes from Top R29, and this is the front trailing.

You can also see where is says Coil C from a V3.0 comes from top R27, and this is the rear trailing.

I'm still having problems after cleaning that solder joint

 

You wouldn't use the Built in VB921 on the board wheres its meant to be, you will assemble it in the prototype area, or external to the case.

Q16 on the board (which is where the VB921 is meant to live) is a really good spot to put a TIP120 which is used to control the Idle speed (BAC Valve) built into a S4/S5 intake manifold.

The two leadings get wired in parallel after 680ohm resistors, off Coil A.

Coils B and C get wired seperatly with 330ohm resistors.

You do not use Coil D with a rotary because Coil A output covers both Leading plugs

 

so for four coils you yourself are just spliting the r26 signal with two 680 ohm resistors one fro each coil and a remote heat sinked Vb921's

 

i dont need a BAC iam running a 12A Pref port with variable intake runners slide throttle N/A

ok i have got it so i need four VB's and two 680 OHm,s and 2 330 ohms

i will mount them in ther own wee box with a heat sink i think just like the microtech X4 ignitor box i am making a custom box for mine

 

are you running cut tooth system cas or two vr conditioners

 

I think you understand how the ignition is setup but as I said I'm not sure it works yet.

I use missing teeth instead of the dual VR circuit. No you don't need BAC valve for a race engine.

You can get 4 VB921s into the MS case, but yeah you will need to wait until someone has it working confirmed before you decide to go that way.

As I said you can use Bosch BIM024 ignitors 100% fine, I have tested and it works, you just need 4 and 4 coils.

In Australia they are $60AUD each from Supercheap auto, I'm trying to move away from those because they are big and gaudy and take up lots of space under the bonnet. As well as requiring additional wiring complexity that could be contained within the MS case.

 

yea my poit exactly about the gaudy where are you at with your ig setup though ?

so that $66 NZD we at like .90C to your dollar i think hrmmm could go this way

what have you tryed so far and results

 

Well my car battery is flat, and I'm not confident enough that it will hill start where I live to go do that.

 

let me know how you get on ?

 

Rpm in megatune is going mental, i'm wondering if the coil ive wire which is running right beside an unshielded section of the VR sensor wire is causing all my problems.

I will revert to the BIM,s go for a drive to charge the battery, and then try shielding this wire better

Having the car

Pullup resistor installed
Output set normal

No spark ever happens

Pullup resistor installed
Output set inverted

Spark happens

 

well, the VB921's are supposed to be run off of inverted (at least as far as i've seen). Thats what the mega-manual says, and its what worked on a COP 4 cyl that I did before the 7. As for the interferance, Im not really sure, although higher resistance spark wires and plugs (more shielded, less EM interferance) are recommended if you're having problems with resets.

 

I'll have to speak with Phil then about the docs... rotary trailing will probably not work in inverted mode, and will lead to weird things happening. It must be used in "normal" mode.

 

Jobro, those diagrams you posted require the "inverted" spark outputs, and therefore will most likely not work properly. with trailing. (leading only would work).

Instead of a 330 ohm resistor straight to the CPU, you'd want to run the vb921's from a pullup on the LED's configured the same way you'd configure them with the 2nd gen stock ignition system, except you wouldn't need to use 4.7k resistors. the 330 ohm ones would probably work fine.

This way you could run "normal" spark outputs, which I'm sure the code works with, but still run the vb921's and coils you want to use.

I still don't see any good reason not to go with the 2nd gen stock ignition system though. It's a VERY good ignition system for stock.

Ken

 

For your info I'm not too worried about getting trailing to work yet, I just want to verify that the VB921s can do the job so I'm only worried about leading.

I'm still having this stupid problem.

ATM I'm testing

680ohm pullups, and both VB921s wired in parallel with 680ohms in series with them

 

Oh my goodness, I THINK IT WORKS!

MANY THANKS TO ALL!!!!

 

Timing seems ok, I can't test it on the crank but it seems fairly consistant, I'm just eating breakfast and then I'm going to give it a road test if it sounds good

 

so you have it working on both trailing and leading how is it wired diagrams inverted or normal and is the trailing split working fine