Can i run 4 Coils with this is yes what do i tneed i want to run indipendant coils for each plug

Thanks
Colin

 

also would it be ok to use a 13B N/A map on my N/A 12A peripheial Port engine to get it up and running are there any pointers for a heaverly ported engine like mine i want full ignition and and fuel control any hints and tip would be great

 

there isnt really any reason to do a COP setup, as the stock 2nd gen ignition is good for anything an NA and most turbos can throw at it, plus its well documented and the parts are cheap. You could probably do a COP setup if you really wanted using the FD trailing option, and having each of the trailing outputs go to a VB921 (power transistor) each and then to each coil, while running the leadings with two VB921's firing the leadings in wasted spark mode. You may have a bit of guesswork ahead of you if you try it this way tho.

A peri-port engine would probably need to be run in Alpha-N mode instead of speed-density, altho with MSII there is the option to blend the two. Im not too familiar with it tho, having only worked with MS1

 

I run true coil / plug with my mega squirt.

I'm currently using

Bosch BIM024 Ignition Modules

And EA Falcon Coils, Just a plane of Bosch Transistor style coil with a Bosch injector plug for its wires on the back, and an external lug for the high tension spark plug wires.

I am planning on switching over to VB921s in the next week, however muaitaibxr isn't sure if the spark output inverted mode will work in conjunction when the FD trailing spark plug mode is selected.

All you need to do is set the computer to FD style trailing, wire the two leading ignition modules in parallel

 

For a peripheral port motor, fill the timing map with 20s in all areas as a good start. Fill the split map with 5s and go from there.

The timing requirements for a PP motor will be absolutely nothing like a side port motor.

Use Racing Beat's recommended ideal timing values for the motors, you will be able to find them on this forum

You will need to verify if you have strong enough vacuum signal to use the on board MAP sensor for the load variable

 

I added a mode to do Rotary COP to ms2/extra for use on the rx8 ignition system, but wired right, it should run any rotary.

I'm not sure it's necessary to do that though.

Ken

 

out of curiousity, does MSII have the capability of controlling the 8's intake manifold?

 

Nope. I don't actually even know anything about the 8's intake manifold except that it's throttle-by-wire.

It is unlikely that any MS product, both now, or in the future will support throttle by wire.

Ken

 

ok i think i will be going MSI V3.0

but i still want to run a CAS setup its tidyer i dont want a big electronic dizzy
i want to run leading on wasted spark and FC trailing split i think it is maybe FD

Could someone draw a diagram for me of how this would work thanks and modifications would be needed to the MSI V3.0

i Have seen the one on the MS site but i dont get it but as i have read an inturrpreted it is

you run VB921 x 2 one for each leading and VB921 x 1 xtra as one is built in and do i need an extra VR conditioner ?


Or alternativly could someone do a detailed drawing or explanation of how i should run me setup for full tuneability spark and fuel ? and what i need to change of i appreciate all your help guys

Colin

 

well, the stock FC system is distributorless, just the CAS and two coil packs on the drivers-side of the engine bay. For this setup you dont need any vb921's, and you just wire it the documented way in the msextra manual or here in this subforum. You'll be able to tune the spark however you like with this... you can change the timing and split (as well as dwell, temp based retard & advance etc)

 

thanks mate so it is all Tunable

how does the leading run off one coil ?

or do you have 4 coils and bridge the leading coils

and independant for the Trailing ones as these must fire at different times ?

Thanks
Colin

 

the leading is one coil with 2 posts... a "wasted spark" coil.

You just hook it to both leading spark plugs.

Ken

 

Where do i get on from do these need ignitors or is it all stand alone on the ecu
any specific coils better than others

i have bosh HEC-715 Coils for my trailing ?

 

the stock 2nd gen system has ignitors that come with it. The easiest thing to do would be to use those.

Ken

 

Will Run cut tooth CAS system

Sorry what i want to run is 3 Bosch HEC-715 Coils with 2 xtra VB912's could you explain wiring them up and what spark out puts to use im guessing like this

Activate spark A B C with inverted set

run each vb912 off each spark output to the -ve of the coils on the corresponding pins 2 and 3 and applicable resistors with the +ve to my fuel pump relay

is this how do i circut up the vb's
HAve you link to look at ?

Thanks

 

well, you need one VB921 per coil, even if some of them are triggering off of the same signal. I'd also suggest running 4 coils, one for each plug. It just seems like a cleaner way of doing it, and you should get a stronger spark. I dont know which LEDs are which signals for FD trailing mode, but the leading plug timing would split to 2 wires , each through a 660Z resistor to seperate VB921's, which would then trigger coils on the leading plugs (wired in the same way you would wire 2 cyls for wasted spark COP). trailing 1 signal would go thru a 330Z resistor to a single VB921, as would trailing 2 (wired like a normal, non-wasted COP setup). See here: http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Ex...ual.htm#2coils

Oh, and I recommend building the other LM1815N circuit, because although it seems like more work now, you dont need to modify the CAS and it has many fewer problems with noise and faulty tach signals. It will save you some headaches in the future.

 

hey thanks guys

 

You'll need 4 HEC715s and 4 ignition modules, the computer will work this way, I'm still testing my VB921s in COP setup, I have a terrible miss and I don't really want to drive the car as I have toasted an engine like this before (it was allready pretty rooted anyway DW)

 

Do you have an assumption why there is a miss ?


What is the Proceedure to running this what do we chop and change on the board and mega T settings ?

um also is there anyway to reduce some noise on the opossed cut tooth method on the CAS so i dont have to do another VR conditioner ?


hopefully my MS will arrive today

 

Again, I'd suggest just using the stock 2nd gen ignition system.

It is a very good system. For example, using a megasquirt with stock 2nd gen leading and trailing ignition, T2GTUS was able to run almost 18 psi of boost on race gas without even the slightest miss.

Ken

 

Well I have just the leading circuit built in COP

The plug I designated as the rear rotor leading fires beautifully when cranking, missing very briefly but my battery is getting flat ie slow cranking, I'm sure it will catch once I fix the other plug.

The front fires all over the place very sporadically. Follow the wire back and I found a very poor dry joint on the back of the DB37, I have a funny feeling it will work 100%

I will post back with an outline of your possible options, now that I hopefully have both working 100% I even have a heat sink to give to you (for the price of posting it to you) that will fit perfectly for the 4 VB921s

 

How are you triggering the VB's for leading ? this could be the issue

i am assuming the Trailing is fine ? running two VB's are you triggering them off seperate out puts as in AB or off a single out put

 

what does the 2nd gen ignition consist of waht do the coils look like ?

 

Again, with MS1, if you're using VB921's you have to wire them using a pullup from the LED's with spark output non-inverted (normal).

Otherwise, I'm not surprised there are odd issues.

Ken

 

It consists of a leading ignitor with a 2-post coil attached to it, along with a trailing ignitor with 2 separate coils attached. You should also use the CAS that comes from a 2nd gen.

The coils themselves are pretty large. as well.

Ken