88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

I don't know if I'm just missing something or what but I was wondering if it would be possible to run both pwm warmup and closed loop idle at the same time.

My bac took a crap on me, can't run anything electrical at idle even with throttle stop screw all the way out, and I bought the risingrpm adapter and gm IAC valve. I'm wanting to kill the stupid cold start cam setup and use the IAC valve but also want closed loop control. Also, how would I wire it up since it's four wires now.

And, I'm switching to a gm clt sensor as well and I'm pretty sure wires won't matter since its just got two. I was going to splice it into the stock wiring for the sensor on the thermostat housing and just wanted to double check.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

MegaSquirt version?

Once closed idle is turned on then PWM warmup becomes redundant and unnecessary. The PWM idle setting gives you an RPM vs. temperature curve with which to set up your cold idle speed. The typical use case is a higher idle when the car is cold, tapering down to the normal idle by the time it's warm.

CLT sensor is non-polar, correct.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Ms3x 3.57.

I know it's unnecessary after warmed up I just want the fast idle when cold which tapers off to closed loop control when warm. Just don't like the 2k on a cold start.

Thanks for the double check on the clt.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

My point is that you can set the warmup to whatever you want.

Open a temp project in TunerStudio with one of the included MS3 MSQs. Enable closed loop idle and then check out the menus.

You'll see that "Idle PWM duty table" is disabled and replaced with "Closed loop PWM idle target curve". On the bottom is temperature, on the side is RPM.

Same thing. Just instead of the graph being PWM directly, it's an RPM target and the PID algorithm figures out the proper PWM values.

Anytime you have a question about behavior of certain settings and what they enable/disable, it helps to open up the example project and play.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

I just realized, wouldn't it have to be IAC closed loop with the GM valve? If so, would it have to be "IAC Closed-loop always-on" or "IAC Closed-loop moving only". What kind of settings for everything else should I be using as well? I don't know this GM valve. I'm pretty sure it gets hooked up to JS0-JS3 though.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Haha...we both missed that one. We're talking about PWM settings with stepper IAC...That's pretty awesome.

At any rate, the MegaManual has a decent section on how to set up the GM IAC:

Idle Control

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Aaron, I've read that a few times before even now and I understand how to set the gains, it's just the million other settings. I'm just wondering if somebody had a base for where would be a good start for all the other settings. That and some input on setting it to either moving only or always on.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I haven't messed with the stepper motor IACs so I don't have any baseline numbers. But, over at MSExtra you can probably find many examples of people using that stepper. Starting with those settings would probably be a good bet.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

I thought I might have to look elsewhere for some settings. Not a big deal, just thought somebody with settings tailored to our cars would be easier.

muythaibxr

I think most people just use the standard PWM BAC on the rx7. It works great that way.

Stepper mode is not tested as well as there are far fewer users of it. I'm have been working on a couple of bug fixes for that mode lately.

Ken

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Another question. I grabbed a dual temp switch from a BMW at the junkyard the other day for my efan, not the 22mm thread one from a VW that I read in another thread, this one is 14mm thread hopefully for more room and easier finding a tap maybe. I was just wondering where would be some good spots for both the gm clt and this thermo switch? I was thinking right under the thermostat, but then I realized that I may not have room for both, and it dawned on me, I'm running a side mount alt so could I possibly tap on top of the waterpump housing right under where the alt sits in the stock location? The pic is to show how much extra luxurious room I have right there lol. Maybe somebody would know? I don't know if turbulence/caviation or something would be an issue.

spokanerxdude

iTrader: (4)

Megasquirt will run a 2 speed fan don't really need the switch. One of aaroncakes videos shows how to do it.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Well, I'm thinking electric water pump eventually and bypassing the power relay mentioned in the one thread so that the pump and the fan run after shutdown.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

This would be the thread I keep referencing, couldn't link it from my phone.

And, for the electric water pump and run on fan, this specific part.
On the plus side, with an electric w/p I don't think it would need a timer. Should cool fairly quickly and tick off. And if wanted I bet you could throw a timer in and a little bit of wiring to keep the fan and w/p running after the trigger point, but I see that as more of a hot lap drag type thing.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Could you point me in the right direction of said video? I got everything thing installed yesterday and was letting it warmup in the driveway and that thermoswitch never kicked my fan on, and I know the fan works cuz I tested everything after wiring it up so I'm leaning towards a bad sensor or some stupid BMW thing that I'm forgetting.

Anyways, it was warming up and I was waiting for the fans to kick in and running back and forth between the laptop on the pass seat to check temps and everything and underhood to check for leaks, first time drilling and tapping anything on my car, and after the fans didn't tick on I decided to look for an issue before shutting the car down and when I finally noticed what temp I was at, 200*-205*, I freaked and shut it down immediately. Unfortunately, I now have a leak running down and dripping off my trans. Don't know if I had it before because my rad was leaking before this, hence all the work, and I'm hoping it's something simple that is acting up now that I'm building more pressure?

spokanerxdude

iTrader: (4)

The first one is the ms3 pro install and the second is the cooling system.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Okay, so got the dual speed fan wired up to the megasquirt. Works great now, after figuring out I lost track of what wires were which when pulling three pairs through at the same time, 4 for gm iac and 2 for the 2 relays for the fan. Accidentally got the pair for relays mixed with on of the coil pairs for the iac, took me a while to figure that one out.

Now, onto some actual issues I've encountered. First off, looking through TS probably woulda save this headache, but why can I not use SPR3 and SPR4 as spare outputs? I found nowhere in the manual on msextra stating what they were or could be used for and figured they could be used as a "SPaRe" output. Boy was I wrong on that, took my a while to figure that out after 5-10 minutes of testing. Next I attempted to use SPK A on the mainboard output, but that threw an error in TS saying it was already in use, keep in mind that I'm running all spark and fuel threw the MS3x board. So, after attempting to get that to trigger my fan so unsuccessfully for another good 5-10 minutes I settled on either Idle or Fidle, can't quite remember now. To understand the wiring on my fan relays now, I am using VVT and one of the mainboard Idle wires.

Those aren't even the worst issues yet, now I've seemed to have lost quite a bit of power and can't rev above ~4k in gear at full tilt and there is absolutely no umph in her, gotta practically slip the clutch all the way to second gear and I'm down a gear from normal on most hills. Under part throttle I can slowly creep up and well over that and in neutral I can jab the **** out of it and rocket all the way to redline. KPa seems to just skyrocket in TS at the slightest touch of the throttle and I'm a good 15-20KPa higher than I used to be under load, though it still idles about the same at around 30KPa.

At first I was suspecting an ignition issue, so I grabbed out my screw type spark tester, can't remember off hand how far I had the gap set, and fired up the test mode in TS and first started at the leading coil, both wires just to be sure, and sure enough I was met with a rather large humming spark on both thanks to the Jacobs box. Next up was the trailing coils with nothing, can't remember if that was what happened last time I tested also, but I decided to pull the fuel pump fuse and cranked it over and got the occasional spark here and there, didn't figure it'd be as often as the multi-spark on the wasted spark leading coil, but it seems like a decent enough spark. Now, I haven't pulled the plugs yet to see if I melted one from the 205* I hit the other day when I didn't have the fan wired right, been too cold (-20F windchill) to do anything.

I was reading through some 4k issue thread on here and I'll be checking my secondary injector plugs, though I didn't even bump them when I pulled off my waterpump and TS shows PW and DC% when I get to the correct rpm/load. Grounds also weren't touched and I wouldn't think that would be a non-issue one day to an issue 3 days later when I eventually drove it again, and I did clean the one under the intake back when I did the "big 3" upgrade a while ago. Any other ideas?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Uh, Spark A will already be in use to trigger your leading coil. So it won't be available to run anything else. Spark D - whatever should be available but they LOW current drivers. Only suitable for a few mA so you'd need to add transistors to their outputs to drive relays. Spare spark outputs are best used for things like LEDs.

205 degrees won't be a major issue.

Are you sure you have returned all the outputs to their proper setting? Might want to try backing up your tune as an MSQ, then wipe and reload firmware and MSQ.

Any of the I/O such as FIdle, Idle, VVT, etc. can be used to switch relays for fans. Unused injector outputs are also ideal for this.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

I guess Spark A is shared between the mainboard connector and the ms3x connector, even though it is configured to use the ms3x hardware for spark and fuel only?

I did reset all the programmable on/off outputs not in use back to off, but I'll go back through and recheck. What do you mean wipe and reload firmware?

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Well, I've made some headway. One of those threads about a stonewall at 4k reminded me that TS has the output test feature for injectors too, for some reason I spaced that. So, I went about testing and A-C started ticking away on command and I watched as fuel pressure on the Aeromotive slowly lowered, but injector D showed no signs, audibly or visually on the fuel pressure gauge. That thread also made mention of sticking an LED into the injector connector and testing, which I just so happened to have one laying on my bench that was going to be a check wallet light lol. I first tested on injector C, front secondary, to be sure it would work and to figure out polarity, and it dimly flashed, then I moved onto D, rear secondary, and nothing, so I flipped wires and nothing again, just to be sure I once again flipped and nada. So, looks to be either a wiring issue between the MS and there or, hopefully not, an issue with the MS. I'm going to dive back under the passenger side carpet on a warmer day to see if I just didn't reconnect everything right either on the MS itself or the DIYPNP BOB, or see if a pin got pushed back and isn't making contact.

Edit: And, I keep forgetting to mention. Aaron, your fab and wiring skills are incredible. I'm ashamed to admit that I don't use as much dielectric grease as you do on exposed connections, honestly I barely use it at all, but I do use the adhesive lined shrink wrap on anything that is soldered or crimped.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Check the pins on the DB37. I have occasionally seen them become intermittent, which will cause much hair pulling as the rest of the system is troubleshooted.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Turns out the db37 on the ms3 board was loose. Unfortunately only one side has the nut to tighten down with, I stripped the threads in the case for the other one a long time ago. Now I just need to chase a vac leak and I'll be golden.

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

Well, turns out it wasn't quite a vac leak either. It was a setting issue with the GM IAC motor, I think I've got that sorted now. It's still a pain to try and get that tuned in correctly, possibly because of the rather weak hose leading to it's inlet, but I've got it well enough that it doesn't die when the fan kicks on, defrost running, and blower at max. Just likes to die on decel when I put the clutch in from any rpm over ~2500, turned off fuel cut and it seems to help, before I couldn't put the clutch in unless I was under ~1200 after fuel returned. Also, had an issue with fuel cut during a warm start, not fully hot, maybe between 120-160*, where fuel cut would activate over the 1500rpm target and the IAC motor was running fast idle for a few seconds and it would pulse the rpm a couple times and die. But, I think I've got that sorted as well.

Thanks again for all your help Aaron.

muythaibxr

Make sure you're using "always on" for the stepper.

Ken

88_N/A_GXL

iTrader: (3)

I've had it set to always on from the beginning after a lot of reading. Like I said, I think its the hose. It used to collapse at higher steps but I threw a couple nuts in to hold it open. I just need to get a new hose, the stock one is too short.