muythaibxr

I don't have a source for them at this point. I'm just ripping them out of old ECU's.

As for that relay, it's going to be gone soon anyway because we're building our own wiring harness to replace the stock one.

Ken

muythaibxr

You don't need to build a dual lm1815 circuit in the proto area, you can use the built-in VR sensor conditioner on the v3 board, and build a single lm1815 circuit in the proto area. That's what I'm going to do anyway.

Ken

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

This may be asking allot of someone to do, but, I think a schmatic similar to the old out that Haltch uses in it's manual would solve ALLOT of problems, not all mind you becuse it sounds like V3 board may change the way some of the thinking is going now in regards to WBO2 and Idle bypass systems.

I know that MSI makes one by its very generic and really leaves allot of gaps in the build up for the rotary. AS is evident by the questions that are being asked..

renns

Ken, I was assuming that already. The dim's I gave would suit a nicely spaced _single_ LM1815 circuit. It could be packed tighter I suppose, although I haven't checked to see what it'd look like in the proto area.

Roger.

muythaibxr

Like I said before, I'll put together an FAQ with wiring diagrams and such as soon as

a) I have the time (soon)
b) I get together/draw all the diagrams necessary (there is a dual lm1815 circuit diagram that renns drew, but it's not really necessary anymore with error*'s msns-extra daughterboard)
c) I get another v3 board, and create a v3 circuit in the proto area.

If anyone else has done any of these things, just post it here. I'll go over it and make sure it's accurate and then post it in a thread.

Also, a lot of the questions being asked are answered in other threads in the megasquirt section of this thread, and on msefi.com, and on http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra

Anyway, I'll probably start on the FAQ this weekend, it'll probably take me a good 3 or 4 hours to collect all the info I can think of based on the questions being asked and put it up, but I'll do it soon.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

"Also, a lot of the questions being asked are answered in other threads in the megasquirt section of this thread, and on msefi.com, and on http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra
"

the problem is unless you understand what your looking for or what you NEED to look for it's all a jumble of bits and pc of the info required.. to get the right answers you need to know the right questions to ask.. and that takes allot of doing for a rotary on the MS fourms.. they are poorly laied out for rotary-MS newbies..

muythaibxr

yep, which is why I'll work on the FAQ as soon as I get a chance

muythaibxr

Ahh, ok, I must've missed the point somehow. Sorry about that. Just wanted to make sure it was clear what you were saying.

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

I've noticed allot of MS suppliers also offer premade wiring looms and/or relay looms..

With the daughtercard added to the #.) board.. how many extra wires need to be added to the DB37 ?? as I understand it looks like it needs two , one for each LM1815 .. is this correct ?? f not then how many should be added and where or does it matter , just use an open pinout. what CAN be done with the mainboards signal in wire ? can it be changed or moved to support PWM ?

muythaibxr

you will need 4 wires for the CAS signals (2 signal and 2 ground), and 3 wires for the signals out to the ignitors.

If you use the built-in VR sensor conditioner for the Ne signal, then you can use the standard Tach in pin for that, then use two of the extra pins for the G signal's signal and ground (you might be able to get away with using one of the extra pins for signal, and one of the standard ground pins for ground, but I think it's better to run the G vr sensor's ground straight to the lm1815 circuit). Then you only need 3 more pins, use 2 of the extra pins for extra outputs, and you can use the "ignition out" pin as well (I think, I have to check on this)...

Doing things this way, you can get away with having no extra connectors... unless of course you want to do something like run the VDI and AUX ports...

I'm not sure what you're talking about with the mainboard's signal in wire... PWM? I think you are misunderstanding something there, but I'm not sure what. The only thing on an RX7 that really needs any kind of PWM signal is the BAC valve.

Falcoms

Okay, stupid question time: Now, upon doing more research, I still am lost as to the lm1815 circut and what it is for. To help alleviate this problem, are there any companies out there making a premade v.3 board and wiring harness that is somewhat plug and play? I mean I can do programming through the setup and all, but I just don't exactly trust myself working with circutry and the like, especially since I only want-and have the ability to-spend this money once. I don't have a problem plugging in daughterboards and such, like the Megasqurit II board (which BTW, do I want that?), but the actual making of a circut with the resistors, capacitors, chip seats, etc. I don't want to really have to do myself. It's not a lazyness thing, but I like having stuff pre-made for a little more cost than have to assemble myself and redo it multiple times before it's right.

Also, another good question: I understand that the stimulator board is a method of testing the ability of the ECU to operate. Why? Also, would I need a relay board to operate the system, or can I just splice directly off the wire harness from the MS unit to the injectors and sensors?

muythaibxr

The lm1815 circuit is a VR sensor conditioner circuit. It takes the messy AC sine-wave signal from the CAS, filters it to get rid of noise, and then turns it into an on/off DC square wave that the Megasquirt can understand. On the V3 board, you only need a single lm1815 circuit because the v3 board already comes with a vr sensor conditioner circuit built-in. (2 vr sensor conditioners are required to decode the signal from a stock CAS)

There aren't any companies making pre-made v3 boards plug'n play specifically for the rx7 (at least not yet. Some friends of mine and I are setting up to do this but won't have anything sellable for a while, as we have to build several megasquirts and test them on several different types of 2nd gen rx7's... S4 NA, S4 turbo, S5 NA, S5 turbo... it'll take a while).

You don't want megasquirt 2 yet... it doesn't have support for rotary ignition or staged injection. I'm going to write that code at one point or another when I get some time, but in the mean-time, msns-extra on an ms1 chip is what you want if you want to use the stock ignition system.

The Stimulator board is useful in that you can have the megasquirt sitting in your house hooked up to a DC power supply and simulate the sensors that would be in the car, and check to make sure everything works. Then you can mess around with it, test it, and get the feel for how it works without taking any chances on damaging your engine. I use the stimulator whenever I write the first cut of a piece of code. That whay I can hook up my oscilloscope to the megasquirt and make sure that the signals being generated for things like the ignitors are correct before putting the megasquirt in the car.

You don't NEED a relay board. I believe that was mostly provided for people who are converting non-EFI cars to megasquirt. Most non-efi cars don't have a lot of the hardware/wiring you need in order to run an EFI system. You can still buy it, and then toss out your stock harness, but you can also just splice into your stock harness... it's really up to you.

Falcoms

So basically, with regards to the harness, I can wire up the output on the MS box to a harness that has ends spliced onto it to go directly to my dedicated sensors and outputs and eliminate the old crusty harness? As I read it this is the case. Also, you can't do any tuning with the stimulator board, can you? I'd assume no being that you have no actual inputs from the running car.

Next question, though: Is the v3 board set up to run with a narrowband o2 sensor?

muythaibxr

Well, if you get rid of the harness, you're going to need to make sure your power and ground circuits are done properly, make sure you have fuses on everything, and that the fuses are done properly, make sure you use relays to switch any high-power circuits, etc... That stuff is what the relay board does... so it's not required.... but it does make things like that a lot easier if you're going to toss the stock harness. Like I said before, it's up to you.

You can do some initial setup and stuff on the stimulator, and get a feel for how everything works... but you can't really do any good tuning unless the megasquirt is running in the car.... I recommend the stimulator just because I've found it very useful for testing things outside the car.

The v3 board can run narrowband directly, or run wideband if you have a controller. You just have to set up the software correctly.

Falcoms

Alright, the relay setup isn't a problem, I just completely rewired an A/C Cobra (with multi-port EFI), so I'm already on the up and up with that. Also, I'd rather run a relay box with standard automotive relays and keep it easily accessable in the engine bay.

Now, although I know EFI systems and how they work, I don't know too much about aftermarket WB o2 systems. What exactly is the WB controller and how would I go about setting it up to work in closed loop all the time with the MS computer?

muythaibxr

the WB controller is the "thing" that controls the heater in the O2 sensor, and reads the signal from it, and generates an easy to decode 0-5v signal (for example, using a techedge controller, the megasquirt can tell the AFR of the engine between 9:1 and 19:1 using the formula (voltage *2 + 9 = afr). Megatune has settings for this and other wideband controllers so that it can take the voltage reported by the megasquirt, and translate it into an AFR that you can watch on the screen.

To run in closed-loop, you set it up for wideband in megatune (get the software and mess around with it, it's very easy to use), and set up an AFR table. It's an 8x8 table of rpm vs MAP and in each bin, you specify what AFR you want the engine to run at.

The megasquirt will try to match that AFR while you're driving. You can then use the data collected from driving around like that to re-calculate (using other software) your VE table so that the megasquirt doesn't have to correct the amount of fuel going into the engine to get to the desired AFR. Once you can drive around and the megasquirt is within around 5% of the desired AFR all the time, you can pretty much call it tuned and limit the amount of correction.

There are times when you don't want to run closed loop as well, like at really low load (probably just want to run fuel-cut there) or on idle.

I would recommend going to http://www.megasquirt.info and reading all the tuning tips for both the ms1 and the ms2... the msns-extra firmware supports a lot of the same features as the ms2 (more features in fact, but there isn't any howto on tuning the msns-extra firmware), so a lot of the recommendations for tuning the ms2 will carry over to the msns-extra firmware.

Ken

Rex4Life

Ken,

I'm going to order these parts and had a few questions. I'm going with the the v3 setup with a single lm1815 circuit.

1) Which CAS signal does the v3 board get, Ne (24 tooth) or G (2 tooth)? This will tell me which circuit needs to be built up on a secondary board.

2) The two circuits are nearly identical with the exception of a 39k and 82k resistor. If I only build one of the circuits, do I still need the 0.01 pf cap and 39k/82k resistor of the other circuit? For example, pin 8 of U1 goes straight to +5v, it doesn't need the 82k resistor and 0.01pf cap--right?

Just for reference, here is the latest copy of the setup you and Roger have been working on, it includes the latest change from the 56k resistor to 39k.



TIA,

Scott

muythaibxr

The v3 board gets the Ne signal.... so you want to build the G conditioner in the proto area.

Basically what you want is everything to the right of the +5v line to go in the proto area.

Ken

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

I'm still looking to order one of these, but it seems no one wnats a new haltech E6X.. So it may be awhile before I can get it....

Will Glens Garage be selling a 'rx7 solution' package with all this data pre done? or at least included in the kit with instructions.. that may be the best way to handle this.. I say glens garage because the daughter board seems to be sold through him.

muythaibxr

I doubt he'll be doing that. If you want to wait a few more weeks, tofuball, pele, and I will be doing that though. We'll also be working on a plug 'n play version for those with 2nd gen's.

I'll also be periodically updating the FAQ thread that I posted as I get the questions collected.

Ken

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

Can you updatefrom the last post, muythai ? still on track with these pusedo turn key setups

muythaibxr

In progress. I've got the kits and old ecus to take the plugs from... so I'll probably be building at least one next week... and will be able to test almost immediately on tofuball's GXL.

I'll build another one and test that on tofuball's TII.

Falcoms

Well, I've been doing alot of reading on what has to be done (and saving $ to buy the parts). Now I have to wonder: RS Autosport offers a prepackaged ready to go ECU box, but I don't know if it's V2.2 or V3. In the pics, it looks to be a V2.2 box, but they say that they need to be updated and that they offer the V3 software, so my mass confusion ensues. Please help!

muythaibxr

There is no V3 software... there IS msns-extra software... I detail all available options in my FAQ...

Also, I would strongly recommend building yourself... you will learn a lot more that way... Even when I get people asking me to build for them... I usually recommend building themselves before I take the job.

Falcoms

That's the thing, I would, but I don't have the patience to do all that soldering and stuff. For some reason, I see a PCB flying across the room after a while...

Also, I'm quoting off their site that they say it has "B&G v3.0 software" http://www.rs-autosport.com/#mshardware , hence why I'm confused.