petree_777

iTrader: (1)

ok i am just going to put in the ln1815 chip and the resistors (and where do the resistor go) which is how you said to run it without cutting teeth right if i am wrong then please educate me. also where can you get the code to flash the chip and i also need the thing to flash it correct.
thanks for all the help

vince

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately i'm trapped in MY shop and 1hr NORTH of Toronto.. so I can't get out that way at all.. SO it looks like I'll be hanging solo on this.. I will be taking ALLOT of pictures for this topic and hopefully I can use a spare CAS to do the mod on so people can see it done, as well as I'l need the proper setup for wiring in the LM1815 to the V3..

OR who's got a pre built or kit form rotary ready V3/ms1 board setup , DIY or Glens??

muythaibxr

So far I'm the only one that's been pre-building rotary ready megasquirts. I haven't yet done that for a v3 board, all of mine were 2.2 boards.

In the next couple of weeks I'll be building a v3 board for rotary use, but I doubt you want to wait that long. (That one was going to be for the S4 I might be buying).

For the lm1815 on the v3 board, you just build the lm1815 circuit in the proto area, and then take the output of that circuit and run it to pin 11 on the cpu. The input to that circuit will come from the 2nd vr sensor (on the 2 tooth wheel) in the CAS

muythaibxr

The only reason I wouldn't want to reflect the characteristics directly in the advance table is because of the interpolation between bins... using the table will make it a "sloppy" on/off instead of a precise on/off when you're between points on the bin.

I'll have to add this feature as another on my list of things to add for rotary.

Ken

pmrobert

Vince, I just want to make sure you understand that the LM1815 addition involves more than just adding a chip to the board. There is a complete, small circuit that has several resistors and capacitors that needs to be built up on the proto area or on a seperate small board. There are several concepts that you need to make sure you're solid on understanding, I'm sure muythaibxr(sp?) will expand on this. I really want all parties involved in adding MS to a rotary to have a good experience; the last thing we all need is to have a small misunderstanding damage anyones property.

-Mike

muythaibxr

When I've actually built one in the proto area, I'll post something about how to do it. I haven't yet done that at this point.

petree_777

iTrader: (1)

ok cool a wright up on how to do it and where to put them would be awsome. if you have it on the 3.0 board if you got it down of course. thanks guys for all of the help.
vince

doridori-rx7

iTrader: (3)

yeah maybe 15 years ago when I was actually doing a bit of circuit work i could have done this.. but now.. no way .. I can barely make it out of bed in the morning without tripping and forgetting how to pee. MuyThai.. please please.. build me a partial with a V3 board.. use it as a sample /test board I don't mind playing test *****... I'll even build the rest myself if that would speed the process up, i'd like to get some picks of the wiring FOR the LM1815 up on the web here for all to see, then install it and get it running.. I'm just about finished all the CnC work I have to do for this thing. so time is running out ..

thanks a bunch , if you can see your way to working with me on this

petree_777

iTrader: (1)

ok i am still confused on flashing the chip. can you just flash throught the tunning cable or do you need the circut to flash it. and where can i get the latest code?

thanks vince

pmrobert

Vince, answers to all your questions and many other mandatory things you must know about the MS system can be found at http://www.msefi.com/msinfo/ . In specific answer to your question, new embedded code is flashed in via the serial tuning cable and the use of one of several programs you run on a Win laptop or desktop. No extra circuit required. The sites for d/ling code are listed in the abovementioned document.

-Mike

muythaibxr

PM me on exactly what you want me to do, and I'll let you know if I have time.

petree_777

iTrader: (1)

hey muythaibxr
what sensors did you use that were stock and what sensors were aftermarket. also how many wires in total did you actualy run to the motor. And do you have any wrightups on the v 3.0 for fuel and spark or anyhelp on how to wire it up and mow to do all the mods on the board itself like the lm1815 circut in the photo area.
thanks vince

muythaibxr

I haven't actually tried to do any of this with a v3 board. I'll be buying and building another one in a week or two so that I can put the lm1815 circuit in the proto-area and wire it up. It shouldn't be all that hard though, and I think a couple of other people may have already done it.

For the sensors, you can use all stock sensors as long as you change the bias resistor for the air temperature sensor from the stock value to something between 30kohms and 50 kohms.

i've posted a write-up in several places in the megasquirt forum that tells how to wire the dual lm1815 circuit to a v2.2 megasquirt board, and then how to set up the software.... so it should be pretty easy to adapt those instructions to the v3 board.

Falcoms

Wow, I feel like a retard trying to make out all this info. I know basic electronics and how to plug in chips and such, but I've never put it all together to make an actual computer like this. I guess this leads me to my question: What do I need (and need to do) to make a Megasquirt system with the precision wideband controller to run the car (13b N/A with no fuel pump relay) in closed loop and run all stock, unmodified ignition components? Also, who has done a setup like this before?

Once I get my shopping list and buy everything, I hope to get it all built and have the wiring harness spliced up and ready to plug and play while keep my stock setup available until I prove that I didn't screw up.

petree_777

iTrader: (1)

ok thanks muythaibxr
just let us all know when you do a v 3.0 board. thanks alot you have been the most help with the megasquirt. Keep all of the good stuff commin
vince

muythaibxr

I'm mostly doing that on tofuball's car right now, the only non-stock sensor we're using is the air temp sensor, but that's just because we figured the stock one would break eventually, and the GM one we're using is a lot cheaper than the stock one.

You need a megasquirt kit (v3 is best)

If you get the v3 board, you need an lm1815 circuit built in the prototype area.

You need a 30kohm-50kohm bias resistor for your air temperature sensor.

There is no precision wideband controller from the megasquirt people yet, so you'd want to get a techedge or innovate lc-1 or something..

And you'd need to get a standard automotive relay for your fuel pump.

The instructions for building the megasquirt board are here:

http://www.megasquirt.info

And I'd also suggest doing a lot of reading at http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/ as it gives all the options and extra circuits necessary to use all the options.

Falcoms

Okay, but on the WB o2 control, at msefi.com, they have this part listed as an add on for the megasquirt system, which I want because that would seem to give me more accurate control of the AFR's. The fuel pump is run via switch on the dash through a standard 30A relay, radioshark special. Thanks for the quick replay, too!

Also, to the people running the megasquirt system, how reliable is it? is it good for a daily driver or only reccomended on a backup car that you tinker with?

Rex4Life

Could one use the circuit opening relay to turn on the fuel pump? The impression I got was FP-1 output would supply the ground for the circuit opening relay and keep the pump energized. Normally that wire would go thru the AFM flow switch and then to ground. Do you think that would work?

Of course, then you need to deal with the fuel pump relay resistor setup, but that's another issue.

I just got my 3.0 kit Friday. I was wondering if you had a chance to think about how you plan to hook up the stock wiring to the MS board. I might try to source a vertical DB37 and connect it internally thru the DB37. That way the stim could still be used.

Today I used a dremel and managed to cut off the stock ECU connectors. I left a small part of the board remaining to enable mounting the connectors back in the frame. Worked out really good. Now I gotta figure out how to connect the stock connectors and use a DB37 on the MS board.

Scott

p.s. It sure would help me to see how you do the CAS circuit in the prototype area. Like how do you make the connections between components (since there are no traces). Done lots of electronics but never board level stuff.

pmrobert

Falcoms, the MS system is able to utilize exhaust gas O2 input from just about any source. The cheapest and least useful for performance tuning is a standard narrowband sensor and is only really useful for determining a good stoichiometric mixture for cruise/low load uses. The wideband units' output is usable via most of the code variants for anything from datalogging and reatime reporting to AFR target table use. I use a TechEdge v2 and have for quite some time quite happily.

Reliability: The MS, especially the V3 board, is a very solid evolutionary design. The actual reliability of the entire system is pretty much determined by the installer.

Understanding that this unit requires the installer/mechanic understand the concepts, theory and reality of how EFI works is mandatory. Once this is accomplished, everything else falls into place.

Careful attention to all aspects of ECU/PCB assembly (or purchasing same from one of the small companies that will do it for you; some offer warranties and support, look on msefi.com) is mandatory. Just as important is the ancillary hardware install - this is highly variable, please see msefi.com and megasquirt.info. Several very important items are good grounding, cabling, connectors and attention to safety in all aspects. There is an active community of users and developers at msefi.com which is able to assist you on any level you need.

A well built ECU installed by a user who knows (or takes the time to educate themselves, it ain't rocket science!) the nuts and bolts of the MegaSquirt and the necessity of good wiring and safety practices, etc., will have a very reliable completely open source system that is in a constant state of improvement and feature addition.

I have 20000 miles on my 12A install and have never been stuck anywhere. Performance and mileage are optimal and I am not hesitant to recommend MegaSquirt to anyone who can put the time in to understand EFI theory and has at least moderate mechanical ability.

-Mike

muythaibxr

I believe I just wired both of the fuel pump relays to the fuel-pump output on the megasquirt... both the fp resistor relay and the circuit opening relay (I don't remember if that's right exactly, I did it in Feb.)

Yeah, I haven't done an lm1815 in the proto area yet... so I'll post pics once I have. I'm going to buy a v3 kit soon to do this kind of testing on.

for hooking the stock wiring to the megasquirt, I was just planning on soldering the wires directly into the board, then using extra of the plugs and wires from a scavenged wiring harness, make a "stimulator to stock harness" adapter, so:

it'll be "stimulator -> extra db37 plug -> wires from harness side of plugs -> female plugs from ECU -> megasquirt board"

renns

Here's a pic of the twin LM1815 circuit board I made up a while back. The perfboard I used has individual solder pads on it similar to the proto area on the V3.0 board. I used the component leads themselves to make the connections between pads. For instance, stick the resistor down flush onto the board, then on the backside, bend the leads over and trim as needed at the adjacent connection location. Solder the leads at the pad where the first pass through, and then again at their destination pad. This method has worked well for me, but takes a bit of component placement planning to make a nice job. From the looks of my proto board, you could use my layout directly if you've got a space 15x11 or larger.

Roger.

muythaibxr

The precision wideband controller doesn't exist yet... it's one of those things that's "in development" that may or may not see the light of day. The switch idea for the fuel pump is interesting I guess... never occurred to me to do it manually, but then again, the engine doesn't really flood with the MS once you get the cranking pulse-widths tuned.

Tofuball has been running his megasquirt as a daily driver... Even without the laptop hooked up... and so far every time he's had a problem, it wasn't megasquirt-related.

As long as it's wired up correctly, I can't see why there'd be any reliability problems.

Ken

Rex4Life

You should double check this, but I think the fp resistor relay will put the pump in low output mode (9v) when the relay is activated. So under heavy load the relay should be deactivated. It's kinda backwards but if the relay fails, you will always have full fuel pressure even under heavy boost.

That sounds like a good plan. Do you have a source for plugs and pins or just using an old harness. I recall someone saying you can buy the Amp plugs for the ECU, but I don't remember where to get them.

Rex4Life

Thanks Roger. Funny we're all online the same time.

Well the proto area is 8X12 so it looks like it will be a tight fit. I was hoping to fit the CAS circuit on the board.

I still haven't decided to use the daughter card or just go with a pattern board. I found a Velleman IC pattern board that might do the job.

Scott

silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

Good Info provided! PM a mod next time to make a sticky happen all the sooner.