Scrappy_Brap

Alright aaroncake, I am using your base map, I recently discovered I have another bad injector... I am contemplating just breaking down and buying 1600cc low impedence injectors just go get something in the car that I know is new and shouldn't fail while I break it in (reason for 1600cc injectors is because i have the intentions of turboing it after I break it in) how would this affect your base map? Is there a certain percentage Id have to scale down the fuel maps and staged injection maps? Or a formula that can help me do so?

rotorholic

iTrader: (53)

I would of got rid of the megajunk and bought a haltech or microtech after all the issues you're going through, You are a very patient man. Big props to Aaron Cake for helping you out with all the issues.

Scrappy_Brap

Trust me I've considered it, especially with all the lack of tech support that DIY offers, I've sent them Logs and have to wait 3 days to hear back with a very undetailed response (which is difficult enough to find time to work on the car due to the fact I'm renovating my home and the lady and I have a baby on the way, so you can say I'm a little preoccupied) this is the first and last time I go megasquirt, next time I'll definitely nut up and pay the extra money for the haltech. Hell it'll be worth while just having some consistent tech support that will literally walk me through the issue rather than just saying "install 10k ohm resistor".... Okay but where? How many watts? How many resistors? Then wait 3 days for an email back

elturbonitroso

have you read the manual? the resistor part its cover in the manual also if you have bad injectors no matter what ecu you have the result will be the same a poor running engine.

Scrappy_Brap

The bad injector was discovered after I sent the datalog to DIY, and honestly no I didn't read it, I used aaroncakes writeup to wire the car and what not, and the ecu hasn't been the issue with the megasquirt, it was the customer service that made me start to second guess my purchase, the product itself I love! But the tech support was somewhat disappointing when it takes days at a time to get back to me, I normally dedicate one day a week to work on the car, (due to me having other obligations) so I work on it one day, figure something out, send a datalog or email to DIY (calling normally doesn't do me any good) then wait 3 days to hear back, wait another 3 days to get a chance to work on it, then try what they said, doesn't work, and repeat... I've been very patient and put so much time into the car, I'm just venting about my own experience, I'm sure others have had great luck with DIY, my personal experience has been "Meh"

rotorholic

iTrader: (53)

i'll give great advice now, get rid of the megajunk and get a Haltech, I use and installed them on customers cars in the past and love them, they are easy to tune and like you stated, the support is great from other users to the manufacturer.

start off with a cheap older fuel only unit like a F9 or F10 that you can pick up pretty reasonable priced or you get a haltech re and be done, A microtech is another good option, very easy to tune also . good luck

Scrappy_Brap

I need something that's more modern so if I decided to part ways with the ms3pro Id want haltechs equivalent, but also I really don't wanna lose money on the ms3 and I know I won't get enough out of it to buy a haltech Id want, so unfortunately im stuck with the ms3 for now...

Shainiac

iTrader: (7)

Honestly, I don't think you'll find better customer support from any other ECU manufacturer. I've had nothing but useful and competent service from the people at DIYAutotune and in particular, the forums. It's pretty amazing that you will get comments on issues from the people who wrote the software. I've also had requests that I've emailed developers about that ended up in the alpha code just a couple weeks later.

The real downfall of Megasquirt is it's universal nature. Because it's so configurable, it makes it more difficult to troubleshoot because there will always be more opportunities to take a wrong turn somewhere in the process. You will NOT find a more feature-packed ECU, regardless of price. I'm willing to bet 90% of people who complain about MS do so antidotically with no first-hand experience. Most of them are still stuck tuning millisecond fuel values on 15 year old Microtech and Haltechs!

Scrappy_Brap

Maybe the idea of haltech has been glorified from watching too much mighty car mods hahaha. Damn I didn't even think about the megasquirt forum, I'm definetely going to post there if I have more issues after I swap out this faulty injector. I'm praying that a new injector will fix the issues that way I can at least start the damn thing and keep it running long enough to set the idle and what not. waiting to hear back from a local rotary guy who said he has some injectors just laying around.

papiogxl

iTrader: (6)

The biggest problem with MS is the customer base. It's usually an entry level person who bought it as the first Ecu endeavor and get in over their heads.
The documentation covers almost everything there is. DIY does their best to provide customer support, and the msextra forums have plenty of experienced users willing to help out, but 99% of the time the problem is not MS related.

As shainiac said, it's hugely capable and programmable. And odds are, if it doesn't exist and you want it in the firmware, it can be added.

Shainiac

iTrader: (7)

Megasquirt Support Forum (MSEXTRA) ? Index page

If you have a question, theres a good chance it's already been asked and answered. If not, you will get lots of good feedback.

Scrappy_Brap

I'll easily admit this is my first standalone, I really feel stupid now for not posting my issues in the Megasquirt forum, I completely spaced the fact that the forum even exists, I'll definitely turn there and here for any further issues, by the way, both of you guys sound decently knowledgable I was wondering if you have any specific formula for bigger injectors to keep the map roughly the same with the required fuel, I keep running into failed injectors (because I keep getting them used because I don't want to buy something new that I'm only going to be using for 400 miles to break the engine in) I currently have 550cc injectors but have the intentions to go bosch 1680cc injectors for my future plans to turbo the car and I'm wanting new injectors just so I know that I won't have to worry about that failing while I troubleshoot other potential issues.

Any input is highly appreciated!

Shainiac

iTrader: (7)

1680s are 70's tech injectors. Search ebay for Bosch NGI-2 injectors. They're the natural gas 2200cc injectors that the ID2000s are based off of, but they're only $75 each, plus $15 for the adapter. You get more flow, but with virtually 1/2-1/3 the dead time (0.45ms!). 1680s work fine for staged secondaries, but for primaries, use something more modern.

Scrappy_Brap

Have any decently priced low impedence injectors you'd recommend for primaries?

elturbonitroso

dont use low ohms injectors directly with the ms3 you are going to burn the injector drivers ,use hi ohms injectors also if you going to get injectors get modern injectors they have better and faster deadtimes.

Scrappy_Brap

The price of low impedance vs high impedance makes it almost stupid to run high impedance, price of high impedance is $125 per injector, so $500 for a set, while low impedance I can get 8 plus the resistors that aaroncake suggests for the same price as it would go get for, it's literally double the cost to go high impedance

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, I'm fairly sure I suggested a bad injector in at least one of your threads.

I may be starting to sound like a broken record but it's almost always injectors. I have lost count the number of times that I've had to troubleshoot a standalone or engine install and found a bad injector. Why on RX-7s? No idea. Maybe just because they are old, maybe because so many of the cars sit. Probably a combination of a number of factors. But this is a problem I have seen again and again so one of my first suggestions for these types of problems is to test injectors. Actually once I was so convinced it was a bad injector I had the owner send them out to be checked and they came back perfect. So what was wrong? A bad solder joint on the injector RESISTOR PACK! Worked when measured with a meter, failed under load. Oh well, at least he ended up with a fresh set of injectors.

Now that said, as mentioned lower in the thread, the old 1680CC Ford injectors are junk these days. There are many choices for modern disc style high impedance injectors out there. Such as these:
Racetronix - 160 lb/hr Bosch High-Z Fuel Injector

You also won't have to run injector resistors since they are high impedance.

As for scaling down the fuel maps, if you enter the injector size correctly and use table based staging, then little tweaking should be necessary. Scaling down the VE table as far as primaries is easy...Figure out the percentage difference in injector size and scale table appropriately.

That seems a bit harsh, I'd say. Especially to compare a stone-aged basic ECU like the Microtech with the fully featured Megasquirt. Hell, even a 10 year old MS1 in more capable than a brand new LT9c.

While the Haltechs are nice ECUs and I've tuned a bunch of them, in my opinion the software and feature set is still way behind that of the Megasquirt. Especially in the auto tune area.

No ECU though is going to do a very good job, Microtech, Megasquirt, Haltech, AEM, with a bad injector.

If you think you'll get hand holding from Haltech, then a dose of reality might be in order. Well, scratch that, I'm sure they'd be happy to help for an hourly remote support fee.

Consider for a moment how many hundreds of questions every ECU vendor receives per day, each one pertaining to a car they've never seen with a unique setup. Remote troubleshooting a vehicle can be difficult and time consuming.

The only vendor I know of that will hand-hold a customer through install and tuning is Motec. But if you have to ask how much...

Scrappy_Brap

Aaroncake, you're the best! Put in a new injector and she fired right up, then died (after I saw a huge *** spark jump between the engine ground and the coolant temp sensor adapter) so I cleaned the grounds to make sure it was making good contact and I fired it up, ran for 5 minutes until the fuel pressure gauge fuel line busted, anything below 1800rpm and it would try to die, hoping to work on it tomorrow, hopefully I can get a vid posted!

It's funny that you mentioned the bad injector, at the time the injector was working and the fuel pump was bad, then I replaced the fuel pump and I guess that's when the injector started to go bad (to the point where it wouldn't open and close at all) literally chasing my tail with the build

Scrappy_Brap

Also Aaron, what's your opinion on running 4 1600s? Someone (who isn't very creditable here locally) mentioned Id never be able to get 1600s on primaries to idle,

Also those injectors you posted, they are direct swap injectors correct? The price is fine with me as long as it's e85 compatible. I doubt Ill ever go that far but Id rather have something and not need it rather than need it and not have it haha

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

4 1600CC injectors is just too much fuel. If you are going to go E85 in the future that's the time to swap your injectors around, not no when you are just starting out and it will complicate tuning.

With a bridgeport and a modern 1600CC high impedance injector, the Megasquirt would give you enough resolution to run those injectors down low. But it would be twitchy and you would need the dead time dialed in fairly well.

I have moved on from upgrading the primaries to keeping them stock or even downgrading them. The last TII I helped tune, we went from 550CC primaries down to RX-8 460CC primaries and it was world of difference. Having that extra resolution really let me get it dialed in. Idled smoother, 30+ MPG on the highway, much better around town. You can always upsize the secondaries a bit to compensate and the table based staging makes the process very smooth.

Scrappy_Brap

I'm looking to get about 450hp when I get the turbo installed on it, so you think 550 primaries and 1680cc secondaries will be plenty to achieve that goal?

Shainiac

iTrader: (7)

I ran 1150cc EV14s in batch fire with a retarded 1.45ms dead time with decent success. I could get it idle around 13:1 and only would notice them bottoming out during high vacuum decel with fuel cut turned off. With MS3-Pro and sequential injection, you're firing each injector twice as long and half as often, so a bigger injector can idle as well than a smaller injector in batch fire. I just switched to 4x Bosch EV14 2200cc injectors. Twice the size as my last, but I switched to MS3X with sequential, and the dead times are 0.45ms!

Scrappy_Brap

How are you liking the bigger injectors? You idling fine and everything?

elturbonitroso

with the right deadtimes you could make a big injector idle nice and stable the key its to measure the deadtime with the system that you are using dont just put the info that the seller give to you.

Scrappy_Brap

Have any tips on how to do so?