apneablue

So I am in the process of selecting a system for the FD. Want to stay light and not go ghetto if you know what I mean. Good sound, not much weight added.

I guess I am just looking to upgrade the stock system (non bose) and give it some umph...

I'm just not sure what rules to follow...Like should i choose a head unit the same brand as the speakers and amp?

Is it bad to buy an amp with built in crossover?

will I have to use an extra battery if I am pushing an amp and one 8" sub with an Odyssey PC680 Battery? (the tiny battery)

Should the watts on the amp be more than that of the speaker?

If the head unit puts out 52 wats and has 4 channels does that mean it's 52 watts per channel or is that 13 watts per channel?

If you are running a 52 watt 4 channel head unit to push the 2 speakers in the doors and the 2 in the rear whats the optimum wattage speakers I should used....

I am sure there are other questions / rules to follow when selecting a stereo system but I am just not sure what to ask at this point.

NukeGenius

The only one I can really answer is the one about the battery. I had a sorta crappy battery in mine and I ran the 8" sub and amp at a pretty healty rate and I never saw any problems with the electrical system, like dimmed lights or anything like that. I changed to an Optima red top so that should be less of a problem now anyways. You could always get a capacitor to prevent that too. As far as the other stuff goes, I think that you have to be a friggin audiophile to be able to tell the difference between most systems. By that I mean I cant really tell a difference between brand names but you can definitely tell a 15 inch from an 8 inch sub. Thats just me though and I think mine sounds fine (and it doesnt weigh a whole lot).

ckyguy

1-yes it helps to have all the brands of audio stuff match in your car, it all comes together a tiny bit more, but theres definitely more important things

2-you usually DO want a built in crossover on your amp, and set it to what you want the amp to do; ie: push subs you set to low-pass filter, push speakers you set to mid/highs

3-you stock battery will be fine untill you run around or over 500w RMS (not peak) then you might want to consider a capacitor or better battery

4-it is always much better to overpower a speaker than to underpower it, and it'll sound better too

5-if a HU says it puts out 52watts with 4 channels, yes that means each channel gets 52 watts, peak power of coarse, which is a bunch of BS, no HU is going to put out more than 20w RMS, and they all put out around that, you won't be able to tell the difference in most cases

6- you'll want speakers with a low RMS rating if you run them straight from the HU, any aftermarket speakers probably won't have an RMS rating much lower than 40w, or peak of around 90w, but they'd do fine, don't get any super expensive speakers if you don't plan on amping them

pianoprodigy

My system fits your qualifications of "light and non-ghetto;" however, it wasn't easy to install and I got a really good deal on everything.

I have Kappa Perfect 5.1 Component Speakers in the doors. They are very loud and clear. The mid-bass is not tremendous but not bad either considering they are 5 1/4 inch speakers. I paid $150 ($500 retail).

They are amped by a Polk Amplifier sending 150 W RMS x 2 channels. I paid $150 ($500 retail).

For a little bass, I purchased an Infinity Basslink. It is very tight and produces a lot of pleasing bass. You can barely hear the bass outside of the car, but it is very clean inside of the car. I paid $150 ($500 retail).

My Head Unit is an Eclipse 8443. I actually paid retail for this ($350 i think). It is a nice deck, but I think Alpine is just as good with easier controls.

I applied 3 layers of Dynamat Extreme to the doors for sound deadening. I can't imagine how bad everything would rattle if I didn't do this.

The entire install took around 40 hours because I custom fabricated the speaker mounts for the doors and created a new "rear deck" where the Bose tube used to be.

Some pics....

Railgun

No. Doesn't matter. For this install, you wouldn't need to match the front and rear speakers either. Just need to match impedences(sp). Also, look for speakers with higher sensitivity, IE 92dB over 87dB. The higher the sesitivity, the more efficient. Since I don't know what route you're taking (IE only pushing the 4 corners with the deck?) I can't comment on anything else.

Not necessarily, but if you're deck is going to have a sub out, it won't be necesary. If you're going with a multi-channel amp and are going to drive everything on it (I wouldn't recommend that) then that might be a good option for you.

Dunno about that battery, but I'm sure it will handle the load you're going to give it.

Yes and no. The range for a speaker will be anywhere from 2-1000+ W. A typical 5.25" will be from 10-150 or so. You might have an amp that hits 100w/channel. You'll be ok. If you have an amp that's pushing 300/channel, you be ok too.

Quote:

If the head unit puts out 52 wats and has 4 channels does that mean it's 52 watts per channel or is that 13 watts per channel?

52 peak per channel. Usually 20-25 RMS. Don't rely on an internal amp. They almost always suck and it doesn't matter what brand.

Quote:

If you are running a 52 watt 4 channel head unit to push the 2 speakers in the doors and the 2 in the rear whats the optimum wattage speakers I should used....

This is where the sensitivity thing comes into play. Obviously, you don't want a speaker that has a minimum rating more than the deck can provide. Now, you'd want a speaker with a rating of...let's say 97dB rather than 90dB. Reason being, at the same power level, one will be louder than the other, in this example (albiet an extreme one) a bit more than 4 times louder than the 90dB one at the same power level. This is where efficency(sp) comes into play.

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

I more or less agree with your other points but these three are bullshit.

1- Having the same brand of gear all around does not matter at all. If I ran a Nakamichi CD-700II source unit, McIntosh amps, Dynaudio separates, and Velodyne subs, are you going to tell me this system is going to suck, or is worse than an all Audiobahn system? Please...

3- The stock FD battery/alternator is fine. I ran a 700W system in a Miata with the little stock sealed gel battery and it held up no problem, and with NO cap. With *any* basic audio system in just about any car, you should hold up just fine.

6- This is not always true. It depends on the efficiency of the speaker. Amped or not, I don't notice much of a difference unless you play the music very loud, of which I don't.

apneablue

Thanks for the input guys...

As for how I am trying to map it out...

Headunit running all 4 corners...Probably find a HU I like with the max watts per channel.

Then have a small 8" sub somewhere being run by an amp.

Railgun

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SfoTNgj...=1&cc=01&avf=Y

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SfoTNgj...=1&cc=01&avf=Y

Get these for your speakers. They'll handle the power well and have a 93dB sensitivity. Since you're not powering them by an amp, this will help you get some volume without killing your deck.

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

The rears will fit fine, but since he has a non-BOSE system, he can go with larger 6.5" speakers up front. Just check the mounting depth (~2.5") to make sure they'll clear the window.

Railgun

I had non Bose and had issues with fitting 5.25" fronts. Of course, they weren't "recommended" so I had to hack a little. Maybe I should have tried.

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

I just re-did my system and put in Boston Acoustics SL65s.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/ca_pr...&CategoryID=14

Went in without a hitch.

bigmack000

does the basslink com in the plastic box thing or did you buy that separtly? i really like how that set up looks and sounds like just what iam lookign for when i get rid of the bose.
joel

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

It comes that way and is available in either black (BASSLINK) or opaque (BASSLINK X).

bigmack000

sweet thanks
joel

ckyguy

1. well to me, having matching brands is important so that you don't have to guess (possibly guess wrong) at how one company rates their power, opposed to another comany, say pioneer rates their amps power after sending 14-15v to it, therefore producing more power, whereas say JL rates their amps power after sending 12v to it, you aren't getting equal ratings. (these numbers are off the top of my head, don't flame me if i'm off). but the same logic applys to speakers, HUs, ect. so basically i find it better to match up the same brands, then you KNOW they rate all their things the same way, and everything corresponds better, unlike if you mismatch an overrated pioneer amp, with underrated Focal audio speakers, even though they each claim to put out/run on the same watts.

3. well i don't own an FD (wish i did, but thats another story), but i know that running my 400w eclipse amp without a cap on my FC with aftermarket alternator, my headlights/dashlights practically shut off at night when the bass starts pumping, and it seems like i just turned the brights on when the bass stops; and the same thing happens in my camry to a lesser extent. companies suggest a cap for every 500w for a reason, sure you can do without one, but it sounds and looks a hella lot better with one.

6. if you underpower speakers with 20w RMS, when you're supose to feed 300w RMS, its gonna #1-sound like crap, and #2-be terrible for the speaker(s). you DO want to have lower rated speakers with lower rated power. the numbers i gave are MY general guideline, but any numbers in that ballpark will be close to that anyway.

SpeedKing

iTrader: (4)

If you go to any IASCA, dbDrags, USAC, et al. "sound off" competition, there will just about be NO ONE that runs all the same gear from the same company. That is, unless it is the demo vehicle for a certain brand.

Quote:

3. well i don't own an FD (wish i did, but thats another story), but i know that running my 400w eclipse amp without a cap on my FC with aftermarket alternator, my headlights/dashlights practically shut off at night when the bass starts pumping, and it seems like i just turned the brights on when the bass stops; and the same thing happens in my camry to a lesser extent. companies suggest a cap for every 500w for a reason, sure you can do without one, but it sounds and looks a hella lot better with one.

I had a 700W system in my old Miata along with fog lights, a radar detector, and an alarm amongst other things and I never had any problems with the stock battery and alternator. Either there is something wrong with your electrical system or you just plain blasted your music all the time, hence the power issues. Anyway, my point is, a basic system w/ a source unit, 4 speakers, an amp and 8" sub like what "apneablue" is putting together should be no problem for the stock battery.

Quote:

6. if you underpower speakers with 20w RMS, when you're supose to feed 300w RMS, its gonna #1-sound like crap, and #2-be terrible for the speaker(s). you DO want to have lower rated speakers with lower rated power. the numbers i gave are MY general guideline, but any numbers in that ballpark will be close to that anyway.

Seriously, who runs 20W to a speaker that takes 300, i.e., who runs a sub off the source unit? This is not a good example. However, I do know what you are trying to say, but IMO there will not be much of a sonic difference with efficient speakers until you turn the volume way up.

maxcooper

Brand matching doesn't matter.

If you run the speakers off the HU, get efficient speakers.

-Max

InsaneGideon

I put in some JBL Power Series 6.5s speakers in the front with no issues. The trick is the "s" for "shallow mount". I belive Infinity has a similar shallow versions as well... Infinity and JBL are owned by the same parent company, BTW.

As for head units, start checking out websites now and keep track of model numbers. Just about everyone is releasing their new lines now, or in the near future.

Tony Silva

Get the Pioneer Head Unit that shows dolphins swimming and cars racing blah...blah...blah. Anyways I forgot the Model number but I had one of those CD players in my car up until about a month ago when it got stolen. It has alot of features and really sounds great. It has a built cross overs front high pass, rear high pass and subwoofer output. And a really nice digital equalizer built in. The cross overs work with either the speaker wire output or the 6 RCA outputs The price is kinda high @around 280 bucks. But well worth it.

tRIcKI^

hmmmmm, jump onto some car audio forums, they were a great help to me, and no brand matching doesnt really matter, some speaker companies dont make amps and some amp companies dont make speakers, what are you going to match them too then?

amps with crossovers built in are fine, but its believed that a power amp should just be that, a power amp, besides, a crossover within an amp, isnt as good as a stand alone (unless you are buying some pos brand)

yes a good battery can make a difference in regard to sound. but no there is no real need to get another battery as far as i can see, as you should have more then ample power

its hard to go by the ratings given by head units, they are usually misleading at best, and you should be using an amp to drive your speakers anyhow, otherwise i dont see much point in upgrading. of course you could buy crap speakers, then your amp might pop them.

generally with car audio you get what you pay for, so it depends on what your looking for, and generally dont bother installing it yourself unless you know what your doing as it can sound downright horrible if you get it wrong. run around to a few shops and pick up some quotes, hopefully they can give you some more insight, but dont be fooled, they will usually try to push a particular brand, so just go by your ears and demo as much equipment as you can

my 2 cents

hens