Mr. Mahtab

I have an R1, how good is the factory alarm?

I dont have a garage. I don't have a system installed either, but at night I chain my car up with 1" Dia. solid cable lock. I go through my front wheel and I go around the carport support beam. This is so they don't tow it away. What does the factory alarm do anyway?

potatobbq

Good question... I didn't even realize my R1 had an alarm until the other day when I saw noticed that security light actually flash when I locked up the car. I was thinking of getting an aftermarket alarm but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet and I'm wondering if I have to somehow disable the factory alarm. Also will I need to do anything with the factory alarm to install a turbo timer?

Mr. Mahtab

Alarm won't arm if turbo timer is turned on, so I wait for the timer to end usually...2-3 min.

sake7

It is possible to arm yoru car while your turbo timer is running. My stereo installer did it. There is also a how to on rob robinette's website, which i dont' have the link w/ me now...

Frank

Flybye

The factory alarm is really cute. When set off, the front headlights start going up and down, and then one stays up while the other goes down and they continue in sequence. The horn also starts honking, but the most effective part of the alarm is that it disables the starter.

To enable the factory alarm, the door button must be pushed in first then let out, then you push the lock on the inside of the door or lock it with the key, close the door, and in a few seconds, it will arm and the light will flash. So in other words, take the key out of the ignition, then open door, lock it, then shut door. If you already opened the door before taking the key out of the ignition, then just take the key out, push the little button on the body that turns the interior lights on when you open the door, then lock it, then close the door.

If you want to test it, just leave your window open, close the door, wait till the alarm arms, then open it from the inside.

WhtRocket

Flybye,

Yeah I've done that test. Yeah that's it, I was "testing" it. It's not like I locked the door, a few minutes later noticd the window was open and reached in to unlock the door. Hell no, I was just testing it and looking for some attension

In fact i've tested both my FC and FD this way

Foz'sRX-7

Iwould like to know if anyone has successfully had an aftermarket alarm installed on their FD3s? I understand their are several problems areas (Driver door actuator and bypassing stock ignition shutoff). I would like to know what system works best, if there is any.

NJDave

I don't know about the FD alarm, but the FC alarm is pretty much worthless and is easily defeated. I know because my car (89 convertible, 24,000 miles) was stolen last month (has since been recovered, but now has 25,500 miles and is being repaired as we speak).

As far as I can tell, here's how they did it: 1) Attempt to jimmy open the driver's door (failed); 2) Smashed the driver's side window (worked); 3) Leaned in and popped the hood; 4) Disconnected the battery (and maybe pulled a fuse); 5) Reached in and unlocked the driver's door; 6) Reconnected battery/plugged in fuse; 7) Broke ignition lock and started car; 8) drove away.

Don't know if the FD alarm is similar, but if it is, you may want to get an aftermarket alarm (I will be getting one). Usually it is not a problem to keep the stock alarm and the aftermarket alarm (at least with the Viper or Clifford alarm systems).

Dave

[bnd]

even with the most sophisticated alarm, if somebody wants your car they will get it. but here are a few of things you can do to make it even harder to steal.

1) disable or relocate the hood release switch. i.e. tuck it behind the kick panel or stuff it up in the dash, somewhere it can't be reached with relative ease.

2) add a fuel pump kill switch. place the switch some where obscure or in your face. who's going to notice a switch that says piaa on it? also something you might want to add if your car is prone to flooding.

3) relocate the battery. you probably don't want to do this if you have a conventional battery because you'll need proper ventilation.

the only thing left to worry about is someone with a tow truck or a flat bed. running a cable around the wheels everywhere you go isn't really an option unless you ride a bicycle.

brandon

Scott 89t2

the alarm should go off when the hood is poped. my car has a hood sensor. if you disconnect and reconnect the battery does it not remember that it was going off? I know most aftermarket ones do. so the starter will still be looked out when it's reconnected.

Tree

Anybody have info on the stock FC alarm? My car was broken into about 5 hours ago and I didn't hear the alarm go off because I was in my room (basement) with the music on. The next time I went out to my car, the alarm was not going off, but it was still set; and someone had obviousley been inside (via passenger side door). So does the alarm automatically shut up and re-arm after it has been going off for a while or what??

pd_day

iTrader: (6)

Hmmm, on my 90 GXL, the alarm will come on when the hood is opened. That would trigger the starter disabler.
Do the starter disable disable itself when the battery is disconnected and reconnected?

NJDave

The alarm may have went on when they popped the hood - I was in my office and was no where near the car when it was stolen.

Here's what I know - they broke open the window then somehow drove off with the car. Maybe they popped out some fuses, maybe they disconnected and reconnected the battery (the battery cables seemed a bit loose). I don't know exactly HOW they did it, I was just making an educated guess. But somehow they worked around the starter disabler. Whatever they did, the stock alarm is obvously easily defeated.

These weren't professionals, either. I am fairly convinced that they were just kids who knew someone with an RX-7 that they wanted parts for. But then again, they didn't touch the engine or attempt to take off the convertible top, etc. They just took "easy" stuff.

All I know is that I am going to get a very good security alarm for my car when I get it back from the mechanic/body shop. You better believe the system will have independent and redundant aspects to it. If someone really wants my car, they will get it. But I will do all I can to ensure that they will have to tow the damn thing next time - even then the alarm will go off.

Dave

[bnd]

ok, here's what i know about the FC factory alarm...
when the alarm is set off, the lights flash and your horn will honk and the starter is disabled. if your car has a hood pin, my 86' GXL didn't because i couldn't find one when i installed my aftermarket alarm, the alarm should go off disabling the starter as well. the starter cut relay is located under the hood and cuts power before it reaches the starter on the steering column. so if your alarm is going off they can mess with the starter all day and it won't start. atleast they were smart enough to place the relay where it can't be easily disconencted. *edit* someone with enough knowledge of our cars and time can disable it.

i doubt the factory alarm brain remembers the state it was in when the battery is disconnected and reconnected that requires a little more sophistication then the factory alarm is capable of but it should rearm itself after it's gone off. otherwise a crook could just wait in the bushes until it's done and make off with your stuff. i believe the alarm goes off for 60 seconds, but you're going to have to check that on your own. to disarm the alarm just unlock the door with the key. if you set the alarm off you have to turn the ignition on with the key to disarm it.

NJDave

That's sort of what I figured happened to me . . . maybe when they popped the hood, the alarm went off (I didn't realize that was a feature of the stock alarm). But it would take all of 5 seconds to open the hood and disconnect the battery, so the alarm probably wouldn't have attracted attention. I figure the thieves then just unlocked the door, got in, reconnected the battery, broke the ignition lock, and drove away.

If you are saying the alarm will re-arm once the battery is re-connected (even though the door is unlocked), then I have NO idea how they did it. I believe, however, that once the battery is reconnected, if the door is unlocked the alarm will not arm.

Dave

wptrx7

let me see if i can help you out. i work at circuit city where we sell viper alarms.

i currently have a viper 800 esp with a 551r (remote start on my 94 rx7 5 speed).

you can put a remote start on a manual trans car, you just have to take precautions. what i did was put a mercury switch under the hood and trunk lid. the reason why is because the car is usually in gear when it is on a hill (when parked), the mercury swich (hooked up to both alarm and remote start) when the mercury is touching the pin switch it will not allow it to remote start. the mercury switches are also good for towing (only effective in flat surfaces). the viper alarm and the factory alarm are hooked up together, i added an acutator to the drivers door which allows for automatic door locks, idid the same to my trunk, so that i can pop my trunk with my remotes. as far as security is concerned, besides mercury switches, i added a battery back up. the battery back up is used so that if your battery gets cut off the alarm has its own battery. also another keen feature is a glass break sensor. it basically senses what the alarm shock sensor can't (it s a small microphone), you can use a proximity sensor, but this feature is usualy used on convertibles, it is very annoying in other applications (goes off to easily). and the best thing you can get for your car is horns. two types to use, air hornes (especially to replace the factory fds that you can hardly hear) and a pain generator ( causes a high pitch noise that becomes annoying to the human ear, must install inside car prefeably under steering column or in vents). and please people if you install or get instaaled an aftermarket allarm pay extra and get this thing hidden. i know the car is small but i found so many places to hide my alarm brain it isn't even funny. i could tell you where it is and you still couldn't seal the car without causing major attention. and for all of you who do have a garafe get an alarm anyway, a garage is nothin but a place where a thief is left alone in peace withou anyone seeing. i ahve a garage and my other alarms are to pits. for any thieves say hi when you see them.

hope i helped some out, for more info feel free to cal me at work 973-890-5850 ext 4.

speak to alex, rob or tony the alarm experts. and i'm luigi.
circuit city roadshop

NJDave

wptrx7,

I am going to get a Viper 800, without remote start, but with all the features you mention below as well as one or two others (e.g., I have an 89 convertible so I am going to get the proximity sensor).

While your car is a 3rd Gen, I would be much more comfortable having someone who knows RX-7s install the alarm. Where is your store? How much would you charge for the set-up you have? (not including the remote start)

If your shop is not too far away and you have a decent price, I will consider giving you the business.

Thanks,
Dave

wptrx7

njdave i'm sorry for the delay, but because of whats going on in ny i have been out of it (family and friends were involved). the store is locate in wayne nj. the number there is 973 890 5850 ext 4. as far as the install goes you can speak to alex, tony or rob as far as the sales floor goes i can set you up with what you need. alex and i installed the alarm.

luigi

Icemark

Hey wptrx7

As someone that used to work for Viper (Designing alarms, and tech support at DEI), and having installed alarms for over 17 years, I have to ask why wouldn't you use the fac neutral switch input wire at the ECU, and hook it up to the Neutral input on the 551 (blk/wht)? If the car was in gear it wouldn't allow the car to start. Not some mercury switch mumbo jumbo.

All RXs after '86 have that wire.

I don't mean to flame here, but mercury switchs are the worst kind of switch in the world for alarm systems. You are just asking for a failure using them.

And a feild sensor should be used in every car that wants real protection, if they are set up correctly by a professional installer they work perfect. They will never false trigger. No other sensor in the world will protect your car if you leave the window down, or they break the glass with a center punch (which does not set off glass breakage mics or shock sensors).

Now I do agree with your comments on professional installation. Unless you know your car and electronics inside out, you should never try to install an alarm yourself. Ask to see some of the shops work, pop a hood, look under the dash, can you see any wiring that is not stock (like big red or black wires running from the ignition switch wires, or a siren that someone grounded to its mounting bracket). If you can you don't want those people putting in your alarm.

wptrx7

i'm using the mercury switch for other things, such as prevention from towing. if you lift my hood or trunk my alrm goes off. i know you might think thats because of the shock sensor, but the shock sensor ( siren ) doesn't nessairly go off when the hood or trunk goes off. thank you for pointing that out, i'm happy to go into detail (and i don't think you were flaming). you don't think glass break sensors (dei 506t) don't work. i place my key up against the glass and the alrm goes off, i do the same on the panel of the car and the shock sensor does not pick it up. i use this to demo to my customers. i even did this on a car without a glassbreak sensor, so i know i wasn't bullshitting myself, and the shock sensor alone didn't pick up anything. to me, unless you have aconvertible , the proximity sensor is the worse thing ever when using it on a non convertible car.

luigi

Icemark

What happens when you park on a hill. Gee suddenly your hood sensor and trunk sensor no longer work because the alarm bypassed them when you armed it parked on that hill. Why are you not using the factory switchs which are water resistant? The factory switchs are 1000% more accurate that a mercury sensor.

The wire colors and where to find them in the car are available to every CC, and viper/python/sidewinder dealer, in Techsoft Faxback, and through DEI tech support.

Quote:

you don't think glass break sensors (dei 506t) don't work. i place my key up against the glass and the alrm goes off, i do the same on the panel of the car and the shock sensor does not pick it up. i use this to demo to my customers.

The glass breakage sensor will not pick up someone breaking a window with a spring loaded center punch, or someone with tint on their windows. Don't believe me? Take a coke bottle, put it into a box on the drivers seat (so you don't get glass everywhere) and use a spring loaded center punch on it. The sensor won't hear it. The coke bottle is considerably closer than you windows. The other thing is go get a peice of temperd glass, and break it in your dumpster behind your shop. How loud is it? If the glass sensor is picking up you tapping on the glass it is set up wrong, as in way too sensitive.

Quote:

i even did this on a car without a glassbreak sensor, so i know i wasn't bullshitting myself, and the shock sensor alone didn't pick up anything.

The shock detects a impact to the body... not somebody tapping on the glass with a key. If it was going off with tapping on the glass with the key, you have installed the sensor incorrectly.

Quote:

to me, unless you have aconvertible , the proximity sensor is the worse thing ever when using it on a non convertible car.

luigi

What if you have a truck, where it has a rear window, that can be cut out with a razor blade dropped out of the way and someone climbs into the car.

But wait you have a RX right? Maybe someone sets your alarm off, (say by tapping on the glass with a key )... maybe he does that three times. Well the 381 (or Viper 800esp) as all decent alarms do; shuts that sensor off after three triggers within an hour thinking its a bad sensor. Now he center punchs your drivers window, (which won't set off the impact sensor) climbs in... and gee he has all the time in the world to mess with your car, because you didn't think you needed a field sensor. Well he will set the alarm off again,... when he opens the door to leave with your radio, cds, turbo timer and seats. I would put a field sensor in a car before even a shock sensor. And again if the field sensor is falsing (which happens and is why many people don't like them) then they have not been installed correctly. Call the DEI technical line, they can walk you through how to set one correctly and where to place it in the vehicle.

Again as you said, I don't mean to flame, I am sure you thought you were doing it perfect, but if you sell alarms, or have installed them for any length of time, you get to see what works and what doesn't.

PS, You know it is against CC corp and DEI company policy as well as illegal in more than half the states to put a Remote Start on a Manual transmission vehicle.

Foz'sRX-7

In other words, keep the factory alarm intact and live without a keyless entry.

I just spent $8,000 on my Rex and want to protect it, so I've been reviewing the alarm threads........and........

NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO CONVINCE ME THAT AN AFTERMARKET ALARM SYSTEM WILL WORK BETTER OR PROVIDE BETTER SECURITY THAN THE FACTORY ALARM!

I'm gonna sit tight, knowing that this is one thing that Mazda did right.(except for not putting keyless entry in the first place).

Icemark

Foz,

Sorry I got sidetracked with Wptrx7,

Wrong. The factory alarm is weak because it is in the same place and uses the same fuse/power circuit in every car.

If a thief steals one, its pretty easy to bypass every other one.

For example: On the FC the alarm was the worst, if you busted that light in the center console, it blows the fuse for the alarm. Since Mazda starter kills (as in 99% of the alarms out there) are dependent on the alarm to work, if the alarm isn't working the kill isn't working either. The older Clifford alarms had this same problem.

As wptrx7 suggests, a back up battery and a properly installed aftermarket alarm will protect you vehicle from being stolen in 99% of the time. The only thing it won't protect against is the car being towed (as even if the alarm is going off because of a motion or mercury switch, most of your neighbors will think the alarm has malfunctioned and you are having the car towed into the shop).

But the key is the more levels and work the thief has to do to get your car, the less likely he is to take your car. So by adding an alarm you just made it twice as had to steal your car. Add a club, and a car cover, and you just added another 25% harder to steal your car. Put a large dog or large snake in the car and you just doubled the hassle factor again.(don't really put live animals in the car I was only making a point.

A properly installed aftermarket alarm (it doesn't matter who's alarm, as I proved to wptrx7, the install is the most important thing) will be wired different for each and every shop that puts one in. For example I like to put my alarm brains in the back trunk areas on RX7s. Harder for a thief to find. But some installers will put them under the seats, or in the dash (BTW: never let them put the alarm behind the radio like they do on the factory alarm on the Honda Civic, gee what is the first thing stolen from the car--- the radio, oh and here is the alarm brain too).

Because the installer put them into different places, the thief has less time and hopefully much more effort to find the alarm and take your car.

Icemark

Something else I forgot to mention, the factory starter kill relay and or access point on both the FC and FD is under the hood on the drivers side. Unplugging it and plugging in a little 14 gauge jumper wire, will allow the car to start, even if the factory alarm is going off.

Foz'sRX-7

One of the main probs I have read about is the keyless entry using aftermarket door actuators. It is my understanding that usually a few months after the install, the door actuator breaks the cable that connects the driver door to the passenger door. The cost to replace is $200.00. The only resolve has been to obtain a right hand drive RX-7 Driver door actuator and custom install it on the US Left Hand Driver side. Somehow this eliminates the cable breaking problem.

What I find frustrating is that evry alarm guy thinks he can properly install an aftermarket system (whatever brand they are selling) and even though they may have never installed an RX-7 before.

All I want is to do it right the first time, where the door actuator cables won't break and the keyless entry and alarm system have good performance and backups.

Once, someone tells me they have had excellent success out of a particular brand, then I may approach the idea of getting one. until then, I'm stuck with my factory.....

BTW, my console light is burnt out, but I still hear the alarm beep....Is this OK?