CYAL8R

has anyone had keyless entry door actuators installed to enable the keyless entry function on an alarm system? I dont have power locks and i want the actuators put in. any idea on the cost of this? thanks

Icemark

I have done them both on FC and FDs.

Pretty straight forward, although the FC is slightly easier than the FD, just in running the wires.

Most car audio shops in California seem to charge about $75 to $100 (USD) a door including parts to add the actuator and around $100 for the keyless control.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Heres mine, i also did power window roll up at the touch of the button (ch 2) Everything is interfaced to the factory alarm, when you exit, lock the doors it sets the factory alarm. When you come back unlock the doors turns factory alarm off.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Damn my *** needs to move to Cally... We charge at my shop $25 per door, $15 for the door lock.. If we are installing an alarm at the same time. If not $15 more for some negative trip rockers...

Damn Mikey is on his way to cally!! LOL

CYAL8R

sweet deal, thanks guys
im guessing that these actuators dont work too well for trunk release?

Icemark

Hey Mike, I (and all the local shops) get $40-$50 just for neg or pos trigger door locks.

5 wire locks or Resister one wire locks for $75 including relays (or resistors).

Viper 300+ for $275 installed w/o start kill (but including parking lights) $25 for start kill or hood pin, or trunk pin (if installed at the same time as the alarm).

$50 and hour is pretty common at the cheaper shops. $60 is more common, but I have charged $75 an hour.

Icemark

I use door lock acuators for most japanese cars for trunk pop.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

I always use solenoids for trunk releases. Same ones on shaved door handles and stuff.

Damn we are cheap here.

Anways I was off today and did 2 vehicles (I often work at home, I like straight up cash LOL). A 98 Ford f-150 , 2 JL 12W0's and a small Alpine amp, I built the box and charged her $150 (100 for the box, 45 for the amp and 5 for the RCA cord) Did it in 2 hours, subtract the price of the wood,carpet, screws, super 77+, and liquid nails (about 30 bucks) So I made 120 in 2 hours.. Not too bad..

I also built a new sub-box for a guy with a 99 Expedition, he went to 4 Kicker 15" L7 (square ones).. Did a regular 2 cu ft/15 sealed. Charged him $175, just a basic deal hooked up to the amps that were on his orginal 2 15". And by the way not a real sound quality speaker, but these SOB are freaking loud as HELL, I was seriously worried about the paint on the roof LOL. It had 2 old PPI A600 amps bridged 4 ohm per pair.

spyfish007

ok ... much of this info should be in an old thread ....

You will break the cables in a FD if you use actuators on the doors. You much get a right hand drive lock with actuator built in to avoid breaking the cable. I personally have broken TWO cables and you can't repair them .... at least I have not found anyone to do so.

The conversion has been to interface with an aftermarket alarm or a stock alarm. If you do it the other way you are only playing with fire ...... you might get lucky for awhile but it sucks when you get burned.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Sorry , havent done much with a FD. Only installed a few decks,amps, and speaker boxes. But on the FB and FC. They both have rods to connect the actuators hardware to.

Cables in a FD? For what door locks? Everything I have ever seen uses metal rods.

spyfish007

ah, I wish the FD had metal rods, but they don't! There is a solid thin metal cable that connects to a metal piece that has the 90 degree bend in it. That connection is crimped together and it breaks REAL easy. I've heard of many people breaking that and I know some shops won't even put in an actuator because of that. Even though you attach to the bigger piece of metal, it still breaks. I don't believe the actuator is able to be placed in a manner that will allow for the cable to be pulled in one direction and one direction only .... meaning some sideways force is exerted and hence breaks the connection.

Icemark

I am sorry, spyfish007 you are wrong. I have done multiple FDs with adding a standard DEI door lock actuator into the door. And not one has failed, with some of the systems installed since '93.

The door lock actuator needs to attached to the inner door lock lever, not the cable. This makes it no different than you using your hand to flip the lever on the door to lock or unlock.

Of course you will need to pulse the factory key wire, to disarm the factory alarm at the same time or you will set it off.

This is a rather common thing. But I must confess I don't undertand why this rumor that you can not do doorlocks, or keyless entry on a FD comes from, since the same technic has been required on the 300Zx since 91.

spyfish007

Sure I'm wrong ..... gee am I going to have to get a roll call to get everyone to share that they've had this problem .... yes I see your point on putting it on the plastic piece ... but the actuator has more force than your hand. If you are adding an alarm then just bypass the stock alarm ... but I'm sure you know this so I won't call you an idiot.

I am certain that part of the rumor comes from the lack of room for an actuator in the door ... there is not much room back there and I'm sure not everyone is creative enough to fit one in there.

Guyver

Icemark,

Where do you put the acuator? There is very little room to put it in the door. I had this done by an installer and he put it up against the speaker pod. However because of the placement of the actuator, the power mirror controller now sticks out a little bit.
It also makes it difficult put in certain speakers becasue the actuator is right up against the speaker pod.

So is there any other places that you put it? Btw, I have a Jap spec FD, but I assume the layout of the door is the same and that that doors are mirror image to the US models.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

If its a piece of thinner metal that can be welded send it to me, I once in a contest welded 2 razor blades (sharp point to sharp point together). I guarantee you if it can be welded, it wont break again LOL

spyfish007

My buddy welds he didn't think it possible .... maybe you are better? If I find them I'll send them to you.

Icemark

spyfish007

Actually most aftermarket door lock motors are a maximum of 10nft of force, most considerably less. Thats less than 10 lbs of force, and in reality closer to 5 lbs. The only reason the plastic piece would fail with only 5-7lbs would be again that the connection to it was installed incorrectly.

Furthermore better doorlock actuators (the ones that car audio/alarm dealers have to actually spend $9 wholesale for instead of the $4 ones) have clutchs built in, which even if installed incorrectly would protect the motor and anything attached to it by spinning the clutch when the actuator rod could no longer move or travel.

I am sorry your installer was not educated on the motor installation, and broke your car. As I mentioned before, it was a very common thing back in the early '90s to have to use this method of installation, on both the 300ZX and the RX7. I and other past and present Technical Advisors at DEI personally have done and taught this method for 10+ years. Heck Bryan Sones who currently is the Technical Manager for DEI technical support was one of the first one to do a FD aftermarket alarm addon. Maybe you should have one of your installers call DEI techincal support, I am sure Bryan can walk him right though it.

Frankly I am puzzled by your response though. If I just learned that I could do something on the car that people have done for 10 years without problems, and that I previously thought was impossible, I would be quite happy. This is the same method I even used putting door lock motors into my FC back in '88. I attached right to the plastic lever piece, and that car doesn't even have the cable door locks. It still works to this day. The plastic has never broke.

Also you would never want to bypass the stock alarm! The stock alarm can be disarmed at the same time as the after market alarm very easily off of the unlock pulse. If someone is putting in an aftermarket alarm, they are trying to protect the car from being stolen. Why would you want to bypass something that helps keep the car from being stolen? Every alarm, ever flashing light, helps keep that car from being stolen. Never ever bypass the factory alarm unless it is broken, and even then I would suggest they get it fixed. An aftermarket alarm can coexist quite nicely with the stock alarm, providing much more protection than just one or the other.



Quyver, I actually like to stick the actuator motor in the cavity where the arm rest goes on the door, That keeps the motor out of the inner door so it doesn't get wet. I can be a little tricky bending the rod, so that it will get up to the latch/lever, because if you don't get it in the right spot the door panel will pinch it, and make it seem jammed. You may have to try and test fit it a couple of times the first time.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Only vehicle I ever had problems putting door lock actuators on was a new 2002 nissan frontier. There was simply no place to put the actuator, after discussing this with the customer and presenting him with 2 options 1) buy factory ones or 2) cut some metal away in the door so I could recess the door lock. He opted for descison 2, as long as he could see any cutting...

spyfish007

Well my alarm was put on by Clifford .... who is now part of the DEI network ... strange?

I don't care anymore .. I bought a better quality lock made exactly for that application and I know it won't fail. I mess around with something that might break when you can have something that won't break?

The stock alarm is still a piece .... how about ignition cut, starter cut, and wireless fuel cut ...? At some point the only real way to steal a car is by dragging it away ..... after that why bother ... I mean who pays much attention to horns and lights anyhow?

Icemark

Yes, DEI bought Clifford right after I left the company a year or two back. Cliffords former tech support was not as... shall we say.. detail oriented, as DEI. It is quite possible they were not aware of the situation. They were a very small company.

Great good for you to buy a better quality lock. Everything can break though if it is abused. Hence the number of FDs that need motors at only 60k miles.

The stock alarm on a FD actually is pretty good as stock alarms go. It is built into the CPU (actually CPU2 as I recall) and is difficult to disable by a thief without damaging the electrical system of the car. I would recommend that it be re-hooked up. If a thief gets into your car and disables the Clifford, by say yanking out the siren, or if the installer was lame and just put the alarm brain under the dash on the drivers side (which is very very common), the factory alarm could still protect your car. The more things a thief has to bypass, the less likely he is going to steal a car.

Yes there are professionals that will flatbed away the car, but 80% of car theives are not professionals. They are that kid that needs parts, or wants a joy ride, or a chop shop that has an order for your nice leather seats, and they get the local hoodlum to steal your car. These people are scared of attention that sirens and lights draw. These people don't have the nerve to stay and try and bypass two starter kills.

You are right some people do not pay attention to lights and sirens anymore, but I would bet your neighbors would look out on the street if it was going off at 3 am. Because properly set up alarms do not false trigger, people are paying more attention to car alarms going off nowadays. There are just fewer false alarms than there was 10 years ago.

spyfish007

can't get my hood open w/o Clifford alarm being online .... siren is in the hood ....

Icemark

Great. I don't generally recommend hood locks as most people don't maintain them, but properly taken care of (lubed, checked once a month, etc) they are great.

That alone will make your car much harder to steal.

spyfish007

who said it was a lock .... I have more tricks than a kid on halloween!

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Want a full proof alarm system? Hire an armed guard... That would be the best alarm LOL

But anyways, how many people question a tow truck? Imagine someone owning a tow truck and deciding to steal cars?

spyfish007

Now you know my greatest fear for my car ....