jantore

When cruising the other day, my car just died on me, and i found out that inj 4 line was constant grounded in the ecu, giving the scondary injector constant power, thus keeping it constant open.

I contacted the shop i bought the E6X from, and they said that they would send me a new driver.

I have searched trough the forum and found out that it is my injectors that have caused this. Because it is a low impedance injector. But the thing is, my other injector is working ok. And im running both injectors on that wire now. And it's worling good.

But how do i set up the E6X to work with the low impedance injectors once i have changed the driver?

Cause i want to use on inj pr injector outlet.

Is it somthing to do with the peak limit u can set under Input/output setup page?

I would realy like som answers to this.

JT

Exidous

In order to use the lower impedance injector you will have to buy load resistors and install them in series with each of the low ohm injectors. Making them high impedance injectors. If your secondaries are 2.5 ohm then gururacing.net has a set of ballast resistors designed for your app. only down fall is that it is 70 bucks.

Exidous

talk to them first to make sure they are the right impedance. If you have 2.5 ohm and need 12 ohm then you need a 9.5 ohm addditional load. high power of course. an example of course

RETed

Hey Exidous, do you have any experience with Haltech products?
I seriously questions your experience, because the E6K and E11 ECU's have no problem controlling a low-impedence fuel injectors automatically, and running resistors in series is not required.

I do not have any experience with the newer E6X, but I highly doubt it will require resistors to run low-impedence fuel injectors properly.

The comments Exidous made is something an A'PEXi Power FC owner would say...

Hey Jantore, can you check the resistance of the fuel injectors that blew the injector driver?
I would be nice to get a proper impedence sweep of the fuel injectors, but this kinda testing is a pain in the ***.
There might be a quality control problem with the fuel injectors.
Or it could be the Haltech injector driver was bad to begin with.

Good luck!


-Ted

jantore

Hey RETed

We checked the ohm on both 1600 inj and they where the same. The same with the harnes, no problem there. Im now running both injectors on inj 3. And that is working like a charm. No problem so far, and the car have been running longer now like this than before the problem. So im not sure what's upp.

But do u want me to tell u what the ohm is on both injectors?

Oh and they are Ford 1600cc from Gotham Racing

RETed

I think the minimum resistance is 2.0-ohms.

Short lesson on "resistance" versus "impedence"...
"Resistance" is impedence at "0"(Hz) frequency.
"Impedence" is resistance measured across changing frequency.
Since fuel injectors are PWM controlled, impedence is applicanle.
The fuel injectors could look fine under resistance measurement, but if we do a frequency sweep on it, there could be a dangerously low drop in resistance at some other frequency other than "0".

It really sounds like the injector driver was faulty.
If you can fix and replace it, I'd be anxious to hear if that fixed your problems.


-Ted

Exidous

i talked to haltech personally and they say the only one that is designed to run different impedances is the E11v2 you are right about the e11 but they said the e6 can fry if you use different injector impedances at the same time. you are also right about my limited experience with haltech. I'm more of a full ems kinda guy. e.g. power fc and aem

RETed

We've done it with the E6A, E6K, and E11V1.
All of them work with both low-impedence (2 to 4 ohms) and high-impedence fuel injectors (10 to 14 ohms) without having to change anything.
I believe the new E6X has a function to switch injector drivers depending on fuel injector impedences, but I don't have any direct experience with the E6X yet.


-Ted

jantore

I haven't mesured the ohm in the 1600's yet.

Ted when u are talking about switching injector drivers, is it this function?

Input/Output Setup

Injector 1

4A Peak Limit
8A Peak Limit

I can chose between these two setings. And that's all i can see, in the halwin for the E6X. I can check the dos version to see it.

JT

jantore

RETed i just checked the ohm on all 4 injectors and they are as folowing. both 550cc Pri injectors did show 14.0 ohm. And both Ford 1600cc injectors did show 5.1 ohm.

Does this help?

JT

DigitalSynthesis

Yes. Do NOT under any circumstances, run DIFFERENT impedance injectors on the SAME driver. You CAN run different loads on different drivers, but each driver must see only one kind of load. Furthermore, if you are running ultra low-impedance - a.k.a. peak/hold - injectors (usually rated in terms of amps required to pop them open, then hold 'em there such as 4/2 or 8/4 meaning 8 amps to open or "peak" and 4 to keep it open or "hold") you can only run ONE per driver. Read the Haltech manual THOROUGHLY until you understand the injector sections including (and most importantly) the appendix. I believe (my funky memory speaking here as the manual is out in my car) that there are four proper drivers on the E6X but there may be only two. Regardless, you are only using them in two banks. So read the manual until you understand it thoroughly. And make SURE your haltech is set for 8amps peak on the drivers which have the 1600cc injectors if your injectors seem to be eating it up in 4A peak mode which it is by default. Again, read the Haltech manual until you understand it because you will just fry your new one if you don't. And don't take my (known faulty) memory for your manual!

Post here as you learn stuff.

jantore

DigitalSynthesis

Thanks for that answer, the 1600cc inj are set to only 4A peak. I will set them to 8A tomorrow.

That was the answer i was looking for. And im getting the new driver tomorrow.

But the Inj3 port i holding up good, and it's running both 1600cc injectors now.

Strange

DigitalSynthesis

Yah run 1 inj. per driver (e.g. inj 1 = front primary inj 2 = rear primary inj 3 = front secondary inj 4 = rear secondary) that's the proper way to do it on a rotary and avoid problems. Set each to 8A peak for the low impedance units and you should be good to go. I believe that's how you do it, again read the section on injectors carefully -- but off the top of my head that should do it for you.

jhillyer

Quite true, yet we hope to see injector coils as increasing impedence when pumped through typical automotive freqs, at least above rated DC load. Maybe Haltech does have a heat dissipation problem, even if mostly a good performer.

I want to know if a rediculous fuel map can open the injector 100% and fry the drivers -- operator error.

RETed

I can't comment on the E6X, but on an E6K and on E11V1's, we've done this unintentionally, and it didn't hurt anything.


-Ted

maxcooper

Is there an issue with running two low impedence injectors in parallel off one driver? I don't know anything about Haltech injector drivers, but certainly two parallel injectors puts more load on the injector driver circuit than a single low impedence injector.

There are tolerances in any component, so the fact that the other pair of injectors is still working is not a strong indication that they are hooked up correctly or that they won't fail in the future. Your other circuit could have had two injectors at the low end of the resistence range, or the injector driver might have some unusually healthy components or their heat sinks are more effective, etc.

-Max

DigitalSynthesis

If you know enough about electricity to understand that a typically inductive load increases in impedance as the frequency does, then you should also remember that a coil of wire in a magnetic field such as that activating an injector does not exhibit purely inductive load, but there is an RLC-ish resonance phenomenon which is also applicable. Should the injector not be designed with such issues under consideration it is *possible*, although not likely, that such a dip as RETed mentioned could occur.

I personally believe it was simply an improperly set up Haltech channel and/or improper use of the injector drivers, if the coil resistance was in fact > 2.0 ohms.

Bad injector driver channels are not unheard of but I would suspect the other issues to be potential causes before I suspect the channel was inherently bad.

DigitalSynthesis

Yes there is an issue. You should NOT run more than two off an E6X driver, per the manual, and they should be identical. You may NOT run a low and a high impedance injector off the same driver EVER. If you run two low impedance injectors you MUST set the channel to 8A peak, and you may need to do this if you are only running a single injector too depending on the injector. Read the injector driver appendix very carefully.

You are correct about the tolerance issue, as well. Automotive-class electronics fall on the loose end of the tolerance scale.

dubulup

Paragraph 1.3.9 (copy right 2004, not 2002) - In some applications where mulitple low impedance injectors are being used, the main 3A ECU fuse may blow. In such applications, please replace this fuse with a 10A fuse.

I don't know if this is for multiple on one driver or not???

It wasn't mentioned here, so I thought I'd share.

DigitalSynthesis

Its for more than one, period. The injector drivers can output up to 8A PER DRIVER, sum that up across several drivers/injectors and you have serious amperage draw, easily exceeding a 3A current load.

That said, I'm running high impedance injectors across the board right now and have no trouble with the stock 3A fuse.