any info would be usefull. thank u ahead of time
john

 

also how about the wiring for a second fuel pump. do i need a second relay, and do i need to run another 12v wire from batt, or car both pumps run off the wire? IM sure many have done this. i just want to get ideas of how other people have done this.

 

anyone?

 

If you download the E6K manual from the Haltech site (just in case you dont have it) it has 2 ways of wiring up the fuel pump correctly using a relay and the 2 orange wires on the harness. Since, however, the relay that comes with the haltech to control the fuel pump isnt really upto the task of flowing enough current for 2 pumps, i would suggest that you either A. get a second relay and wire that in so that when you get power coming from the haltech to the pump this would activate the 2nd relay, or B. get a more powerful relay and substitute the one on the haltech harness. You can determine how good the relay is by messuring resistance accorss terminasl 85 and 86 with a multimeter, the haltech bosch ones have around 88 ohms, the higher the better.

As for the MSD box, depending on how you are triggering your ignition, you will need to purchase either 3 MSD 6A's, one for each coil, bypassing the OEM igniters, or, if you are already controlling your OEM ignition with the Haltech, play with the Dwell time on your coils to obtain more spark. I would just stick with the stock ignition system, its prooven to be very good when the coils and igniters are in good shape.

 

I am going to need a more powerfull spark, Why would i need 3 msd boxes , can i not just run one on the leading. lupe a buddy of mine just made 600 rwhp with a t2 leading coil and a msd 6a, and stock 3rd gen trailing. My car made 418RWHP at 15 psi. When Kan comes back to town ill be doing a race gas tune at 20+psi. That is also why i will be needing more fuel, the pressure was dropping in the higher rpms. i had the denso upgrade sold by rx7.com. I will be going to a dual walbro set up. I will have to download that manual. thanks claudio for the input

 

If you ran the 3rd Gen trailing coils, how did you fire them? with what igniter? stock or MSD, or bosch?

When i suggested 3 MSDs, its because you have 3 ignition events, 1 signal for the leading coils, and 2 signals for the 2 trailings. The way the 2nd gen ignition system works is by having a toggle feature built in the module, so then the ECU just sends 2 signals, 1 leading and 1 trailing, and also a toggle signal to the module, that way it knows when to alternat between T1 or T2.

But, since you want to use MSDs, and the settings for the ignition output are different for MSDs than for stock, i dont know what the results are.

Can you tell me how you have it setup in your map? or how your friend with the 600hp motor did it?

 

he was using a power fc, so im not sure how he had it set up, i would use the stock fc trailing ignition , i just wanted run the msd box on the leading. is this wrong?

 

Hmmm... i think this post would get a better response in the PFC section, but anyway, i guess the only wrong thing i would see in this scenario is that the Trailing isnt gonig to get a powerful spark.

 

The 3rd gen is not based on a toggle setup like the 2nd gen. The FD igniter is an actual 3-channel unit. Your options for an ignition amplifier are based on for either leading or trailing ignition. If you're running it on the leading only then just wire it between the stock igniter and the leading coils.

 

chris do u think this will be a enough spark for around 450 possibly 475 to the wheels? Do i need to address the trailing also. I want my set up to be correct, as i do not want any problems on the dyno.
again thank u guys
john

 

If you've ever seen what a trailing plug hole looks like from the chamber side...you wouldn't want to amp it. Blows my mind people spend big bucks to amp a spark going thru a tiny tiny hole...which its only purpose is to finish off what didn't ignite, MPG and emissions...this is only my opinion

 

dubulup, thats what what i think. I understand that 3 msd boxes are needed for a two step to work because both leading and trailing would have to be retarded. I have another buddy who ran leading only and made 390 RWHP. I just want my leading spark to be strong and i dont think the stock trailing should be a problem

 

The MSD on the leading will support the power. If you are doing the two step then you'll need all three.
Check this ignition box out.--->http://www.forceignition.com/
I've been using these for some time without any issues. One good feature of the box is that it got the two step built in already

 

Hey Cris,

How many channels does that unit have, the site doesnt seem to have much tech info them? Can you connect all 3 rotary channels with that one? Unlike MSD, that says their DIS-4 unit's circuits cant handle the speed at which the rotary alternates the ignition channels?

Anybody ever try a DIS4 on a rotary all by it self?

 

The FORCE EFI box is a single channel box.
As for the DIS-2/4 MSD's it's got to have a minimum of 30 deg between channels to function properly due to the single capacitor design needing a certain time to charge between ignition events, hence why it cannot run the rotary ignition. I was told even on the leading on a 2-rotor wasted spark setup it cannot operate properly unless you use a single channel hence why everyone use a single channel 6A/L on the leading and a DIS-2 on the trailing. The only way I believe you can run a DIS on the leading would be on a true sequential direct fire 180 deg setup.
On a 3-rotor application you can run a seperate DIS-4 on the leading and trailing due the 120 deg seperation between ignition events.
AEM, M&W and Motec all do have one ignition amps that can run all the channels (L&T) on a 2-rotor application. I know the AEM box do run twin capacitors so being able to run both lead and trail on a 2-rotor but so far due to reasons only known to AEM they cannot get the box to function reliable on a rotary ignition.
I have no experience with M&W or Motoec ign amps on a rotary application but I believe due to the reputation of both companies they should perform flawlessly.

 

so chris do u think the force ignition box is comparable to the msd 6a or al. How much power have u made with one of theese boxes?

 

Also what is the difference between the r2 and a 6al? do u prefer this over the msd. Another Q, i have 550cc pri/ 1600cc sec how much power will this set up support.

 

Well, i can tell you that crunching numbers (on paper) on the 550/1600 combo, its known to provide enough fuel for over 500HP, but some will argue that the difference in size is a little on the unadviseable side, so most just prefer to run 800/1600cc, its easier to tune too, and that combo will provide enough fuel for over 550HP reliably.

Personally, i think the 550/1600 combo is best, since you can get great fuel economy while driving under no boost from the 550's.

Personally ive tuned both combinations, but only so far as 380RWHP on a 13BT with porting and TO4E turbo, and mS values where never even upto the 10s with AFRs around the 11's on race gas, so my guess is there is still loads of fuel to be potentially delivered.

 

well thats good to know i would be very happy with being over 450 and the last time i took my car on a road trip after being tuned w/ 550 /1600 mostly highway i was getting aroung 18-19 mpg. idle is great also with the 550's

 

Yes I do!

 

http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/how-to/...tem/calcs.html

according to this for a modified rotary (I'm taking as ported motor)

550/1600 w/ 50psi base fuel pressure

this combo with support 510rwhp

 

i may try the force out then. thank u all for your info
john

 

Whats the price on the Force unit? is it better than the MSD 6A, pricewise?

 

Wrong.
The DIS-4 will happily fire all 3 channel IF IT COULD.
The problem is that the DIS-4 needs to see 3 (or 4) sequential, evenly spaced trigger events to work properly.
If they are not evenly spaced (which the RX-7 ignitions are not), then it will barf.

We tried this on an FD.
What a fricken waste of time.


-Ted

 

Why say im wrong? im just stating the fact that the DIS4 cant be installed on a rotary, i just said it differently. Heck, even MSD admits it, at least.