dubulup

Running a stock Reman 13B-REW
single turbo
stock ignition with a MSD 6A

When I zero my timing it was 49 last time I zero'd it without the 6A it was 71

I set the split to 15 across the board and locked timing at 10 (started with a 95 angle)...marked lined up at 79 and I unlocked timing and subtracted 30

EGT's are in the 1400F preturbo while cruising at 3k for periods of time
A:F are in the 14.X's. Timing is a series 6 base map. Motor free rev's great, drives great, but EGT's are TOO DAMN HOT...turning my exhaust tips/bumper brown.

I set the angle to 64 (to offset my split in case it needed to be zero??? while zero'ing) didn't help. I changed A:F's to 13.X's...barely helped. I dropped timing 8-10 Degrees and splits from 7-18 degree's...no difference.

I'm going to remove the 6A.


I'd love to hear some opinions...please

dubulup

I have my spark out put set to falling per K2RD wiring...which is correct?

RETed

Okay, 1400F is like 760C.
Running stoic at 3k, which is like cruising on the freeway...that's about normal temps.
I've seen EGT's up to 800C - sorry for the metric numbers, but I use mostly Japan gauges that read in C.
Any reason why you think it's too hot?
If you're worried, check the color of your spark plugs?
I bet they are normally colored...

As for your MSD question...
You're running the single 6A into just the leadings, right?
This means you still go the stock ignitor module still there?
If so, then you keep the Haltech settings like for stock - no change.


-Ted

dubulup

okay thanks for that. You are correct about my ignition.

thanks...reason for the concern is my exhaust tips are "torched" and the bumper cover had a golden tint; which wiped clean with ELBOW grease and some kind of fluid from my body guy.

any idea how my zero timing angle could have changed so much...just adding a 6A? 49 is kind of out of the ordinary, no?

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I was going to say....I hope that's not too hot because that might expalin my last lost motor.....

I could cruise at +/-3K and see 1400's at +/-13:1 AFR

RETed

Hmmm...dunno about all the weird film.
Change in gasoline?
Additives?
Premix?

Sorry, can't help you with the timing question - I don't do these things on FD's.

800C or 1600F is just about right for EGT's at legal freeway cruising speeds pre-turbo.
That's the typical numbers I see.
AFR's are around 14.5:1 and can run slightly leaner even up to 15.0:1.
If you running richer than that, you're just wasting gas.
Again, if you're worried about it being too lean / hot, just pull the spark plugs to check.

You wanna talk about HOT, I've seen 1050C (almost 2000F!) at 4kRPM at freeways speeds (yes, this is "cruising" at around 100mph).
That got a little bit uncomfortable, although the engine was running pretty damn smooth!
AFR's were tilting leaner than 15.0:1!


-Ted

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

This is not the first time i've heard someone "substract xx amount of degrees" after locking the timing. You DO NOT have to substract anything, once you have the timing locked, zero'd and lined up, you leave it at what you zero'd it at, you never subtract anything from the final trigger angle value, what you did was make the timing way more advanced, and that is why you are running hot under idle/light cruise.

If this is a 2nd gen CAS, trigger angle should be +/- 65 degrees with a tooth offset of either 3 or 11, depending on how you inserted the CAS, if you inserted the CAS wrong, your values will be off, it doesnt mean you wont be able to line up the timing, since you can pretty much find what ever value you want, but its not correct and you're leaving room for error.

If this is a 3rd gen engine, trigger angle should be around +/- 65 degs. and tooth offset 5, again, if its not like this, you need to set it up properly.

Never subtract anything from the final trigger angle value you find when lining up the marks, this just puts the timing in the wrong place and you are asking for trouble.

If you lined up the marks perfectly, with locked timing ON, with a trigger angle value of anything above 60 degrees, and what ever tooth offset, and with the timing lock ON you rev the engine the the marks DO NOT MOVE, the by all means leave it like that, and dont change anything else, just unlock the timing, and that will make your ignition run off the map, make one final check with the timing light, to see that what the software is putting as a final timing value is EXACTLY what the timing light is showing you in the pulley!

Finally, idle temps under normal ambient conditions and normal operation can be anything from 800-1100 degrees F, normal part throttle light cruise driving can show temps of around 1000-1300, WOT running, as high as 1600 or more, especially on turbo motors.

slo

iTrader: (1)

15-1 seems to be where EGT's peak. I run as high as 17-1 over 3500 in light throttle and the egt's go down significantly

dubulup

only reason I subtract is...I start with 95 (30 over 65), so I can get T1 to fire at 20 ATDC

again I started with 65...but due to the timing mark on a stock 13B-REW at -20BTDC, locking at 10 BTDC you need to add 30 degrees to get the marks to line up (of course I have to bring the rpms up so the car doesn't die); as I can't lock timing at -20 BTDC. In doing this my marks were still 16 degrees off/advanced; this yeilded a 79 valve...to get back to the unlocked map aread, I subtracted 30...for 49 deg.

hope someone follows that



^okay that is what I did, but after typing these are my thoughts on what I should do.


stock timing at idle per work shop manual is
L1 = -5 BTDC
T1 = -20 BTDC

if I lock timing at 10 BTDC w/ a 15 degree split timing should be
L1 = 10 BTDC
T1 = -5 BTDC
*** IF IN FACT SPLIT IS RUN OFF THE TRAILING MAP DURING LOCKED TIMING...I guess I can make changes and see

Now, I think I need to add only 15 to get L1 to fire at -5 BTDC and T1 at -20...making my angle 64 (which I did mention in my first post...I guess the same question too...is split mapped during locked or will T1 fire where I place the lock?)

damn, I thought I was on to something new...guess not.

crispeed

Lock the timing at 0 deg with a 20 deg split so the T1 will come up on the factory mark.
Or better yet just set timing at idle and 500 rpm above and below at 0 deg with a 20 deg split.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Or even better, lock the timing at -5 degrees, set the split to 15, and use T1 to put your Timing Light on and zero properly using the trailing mark on the REW pulley.

crispeed

That's not better. That's the best.

dubulup

Haltech says you can only lock 0-25 deg BTDC...with the E6X

thanks for the input guys.

crispeed

As long as you got the idea.

SaabGuy

Why is this... I went to zero my timing this morning and I felt mixed up aboutwhat I observed.

Both the front and the rear leading coils are timed exactly the same for some reason... It doesnt matter if I hook the light up to the front or the rear coil: they both time up to the yellow mark on the pulley. Is that normal?

Hooked the timing light to the trailing coils and both seem to fire half as quickly as the leading coils. The front trailing is within spec, and the rear trailing is way off (probably 180) like I guess its supposed to be.

Does all this sound normal?? Engine runs fantastic otherwise throughout the whole rpm.

SaabGuy

OPPPSSS sorry I didnt mean to post in this thread. Stupid monkey!

88rxn/a

iTrader: (6)

BACK FROM THE DEAD (this is great info)

my question is.....
i set my trigger angle @ 55 degrees...does this mean i did it wrong? i stabbed the CAS and didnt move it because i couldnt get the trailing lined up. moving the trigger angle to 55 lined both up dead nuts. my tooth offset it 11

so should i set my trigger angle back to 60 then try and turn the CAS? or even re-stab it?

RETed

55 should be fine.
The offset angle is the MAX ignition advance you can run.
My E8 only can go max 50-degrees ignition timing advance, so your 55 would be fine.
What's more important is that the timing marks all line up properly!


-Ted

88rxn/a

iTrader: (6)

ted,
your gonna start charging me!!!
hahahhaha
thanks again my friend!

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Your leading (presuming stock coils?) is wastespark. Meaning they both fire together, so thats normal.

Well, as long as you've got the ECU's ignition timing matched to the mechanical timing of the engine you're fine, whatever trigger number is there.

That said, if you inserted the CAS as per the FSM, the value should be *around* 65...but I've found it vary's from CAS to CAS........55 isn't that far off, so it should be fine.

Just check and make sure that when you fire the spark at 5BTDC (however you accomplish this, be it locking the timing or changing the actual values of the main ignition map) it lines up with the 5BTDC mark on the pulley - if it is, its golden.