I don't own or sell either, but I would go with the Haltech because of the ability to record useful datalogs. Power FC logging rate was probably good 20 years ago, but it's abysmally slow and sparse compared to modern standalone ECUs. Modified cars don't always behave nicely, so it's good to have all the relevant channels recorded and saved in case something needs review.

 

I am SHOCKED that the newer more expensive option is better.

Everyone here is on a knowledge trip. This thread was finished after the 2nd post.

 

So how much is a full Haltech 2500 setup for an FD? I have a Defi ZD at the moment, with Power FC. What needs to be added, and what can I re-use with the haltech? I have basic sensors, no Wideband or EGT, but I want those for the haltech.

I have the Turblown EFR kit. What will I need?

 

The Internet Spoon Feeds.
www.haltech.com
https://www.haltech.com/product-cate...g-n-play-kits/

$2244 USD for an Elite 2500 w/ FD PnP Patch Harness.

 

That's all I need? No sensors, no EGT probes, no amplification boxes, no Wideband?

 

What else is missing here as a reasonable setup to get it tuned and running properly?

 

LOL at "basic knowledge of the subject" of the term can't compare them..
"You can't compare them" means you can't compare them. There's no double edged definition where both answers are incorrect.

....and don't start with the name calling, you douche nozzle.

 

I think a fuel pressure sensor is a good idea, it's surprisingly common to encounter fuel system problems on modified cars. Low oil pressure is probably the quickest way to kill an engine, although I don't hear about rotary people having oil problems often. My car is mostly stock and has had wideband & fuel pressure sensors installed for 10+ years, and just recently added oil press & oil temp sensors. In the future I'd like to add crankcase pressure, EGT, coolant pressure, and transmission temperature. If making big power, maybe an exhaust pressure sensor and a selector switch so you can change the boost target on the fly without messing with a laptop.

 

I already have a Defi ZD with oil temp, water temp, fuel pressure, and oil pressure. I’d plan on connecting that to the haltech, at least re-using sensors

 

you will have to figure out the scaling for each sensor. or sell it as a set and buy GM sensors like the majority of the people. The scaling of those is widely available. I had the ZD in the recent past and I do love the ZD BUT if you are upgrading the power fc to a haltech (or others) it will be a shame not to utilize a better can-bus dash where pretty much all parameters will be displayed as your ecu sees them.
There are a variety of options if you want to stick to the discreet size of the ZD. Plex tuning makes a tiny dash logger and they are reasonably priced.
In my case, I decided to go on the other end of the spectrum and get a 10inch AIM dash/pdm instead even though my intial plan was to get a small dash-logger as mentioned in my above sentence lol
I know that there's an OBD version (or an add-on) of the ZD. i dont know much about it as i never had to use it. I dont know if thats going to work with the haltech

 

Why a 2500 and not a 1500? Do you need the extra injector or ignition outputs?

 

Been wondering this question for a while, figure this would be a good thread to ask.

With the Haltech, can you -

- Fully control the sequential system
- Control the OMP
- Run the emissions system

And is this something that people have actually done and is documented how to do, not just "there are some open outputs I think you can set up to do that".

Dale

 

I use the OMP with an external 2T oil supply. The 1500 will make you choose between Drive By Wire, or the OMP, there aren’t enough inputs for both. If I’m spending the money on a haltech setup, I’m not going to sacrifice DBW to save ~7% of the conversion cost

 

The 1500 and 2500 have the same number of inputs. If you’re input limited, going from the 1500 to 2500 won’t help a bit. You either need to add Haltech expansion modules or be smart enough to manipulate the Haltech CAN bus to bring in inputs from 3rd party devices.

 

Your question is really not genuine. If you want to say the PFC can maintain full emissions control, it’s a moot point. Swapping the ECU violates federal law, regardless of what it can control. If you’re violating the law, no point in pulling punches.

 

I'm not trying to make a loaded argument, this is genuine curiosity.

Big one is controlling sequential and OMP and if that's possible.

Personally I'd be interested in a Haltech down the road if it could control OMP and the twins and do it easily.

Dale

 

If one increases likelihood of a headache, then there is a point in pulling punches. Some people have different thresholds for risk, what they want and how easily reversible the 'mods' are.

Seeing how far basic mods can push the stock FD with emissions is important context in this decision.

 

If the PFC can control all the emissions and Haltech can’t, that’s 100% relevant to this thread, it’s why it was created. US law only applies to the US.

So if I want to run OMP and DBW and direct fire, I can do that with a 1500 and an expansion box? And if I had a 2500, I’d still need an expansion box?

 

How does Haltech manage the twins? Same as OEM / PFC?

 

- Fully control the sequential system
Yes - You do have full control of the sequential system. The one caveat is that you only have closed loop control of the wastegate solenoid, not the precontrol solenoid. You can implement some custom open loop strategies on the precontrol side such as boost by gear

- Control the OMP
Yes - OMP control is setup as a 3D map referencing RPM and manifold pressure by default.

- Run the emissions system
Mostly - The Elite 2500 basemap includes pre-setup functions for the air pump including port air control and secondary air bypass, fuel temp sensor, and purge control valve.

I am personally running the Elite 2500 with their plug an play adapter to control my sequential twins car. I have added an IO expander module, EGT module and CAN wideband to take care of additional sensors seeing as the 2500 I/O is mostly used up with factory items. I am not personally utilizing the air pump (yet) however I do plan on implementing it soon as I have been slowly returning the car to mostly stock. I can say that the sequential control works very well. While there is no closed loop on the primary, you can still get pretty creative with the open loop control (still have closed loop on wastegate) and overall you have significantly more boost control strategy options over the PFC.

 

Thanks for that!

It would probably make more sense to use an aftermarket solenoid and tee the wastegate and pre control together just like using an aftermarket boost controller. The separate pre control solenoid really isn't needed. That would free up an output.

Dale

 

Dale,

You could definitely do that and that is how I operated my AEM S2 ECU on stock twins for many years. When I switched to Haltech I started out doing that, however as an experiment i went to two independently controlled solenoids and found that I had much better transition (less of a dip in boost). This was due to being able to keep the wastegate closed 100% while the precontrol is controlling the primary turbo resulting in all the precontrol exhaust flow driving the second turbo instead of bypassing it out the wastegate.

 

The Power FC cannot control the USA FD RX7 emissions system.
It cant even control the check engine light, let alone code storage and factory diagnostics communication.

 

Turns out, you can re-assign the unused 2500 injector outputs to user-defined outputs. So you will be able to use the outputs to control the OMP, allowing you to use OMP and DBW. Inputs are still the same as the 1500. Just 4 extra outputs for whatever you want, meaning you don't need an expansion box. Glad I figured this out.

The extra ignition outputs can be reassigned as well. Giving another 4-5 outputs, depending on how you set up your coils.

 

We usually end up short on inputs when doing DBW.
4x AVI for DBW
1 AVI for OMP
1 AVI for CLT
1 AVI for IAT
AVI we normally like to run
Oil Pressure
Fuel Pressure
Oil Temp
1 or 2 Cal switches for boost and/or traction control
AC request

On the SPIs we need brake and clutch for DBW
We like to run
2x speed at a min for traction control
Flex Fuel

So, total it all up and 10 AVI and 4 SPI don’t allow us to do everything we want without some form of input expander being added.