dubulup

my understanding is an ignitor is not required.

Would an AMP be required for high boost? (20+psi)

I take it you would need 4 coils, correct?

TIA.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

The LS1 coils provided by haltech have a built in igniter, so there is no need for an external one or a CDI, and from what ive researched about them, they are good for a lot of power, specially in sequential applications, since they are fired less often than in wasted spark configuration. And from what ive seen from the V8 guys, they are good for a lot of power from those coils on their 600+ hp motors.

Remember to set the ignition output to Direct Fire when using the LS1 coils, constant charge, 3.5mS to start.

GUITARJUNKIE28

3.5-4 if you're running wasted leading spark, but 5-5.5 if you're running sequential. the ls1 coils like a really high charge time. i swapped my leading out fo the msd replacements.

fc3s.org

Yeah you definately shouldn't need any type of ignition amp with the LS1's. 5.0-5.5 is what we use as well, usually stay around 5.2ms most recently with good results.

GUITARJUNKIE28

^ e6k/x, or e8/11 though?

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Doesnt really matter what ECU it is since dwell is dwell, right Dave?

Hey Dave, did your data back, i have more experience with the E11/E8's now so i can help you now.

GUITARJUNKIE28

actually, it does matter.

on the k/x the leading fire twice, instead of once with sequential spark. if you set the dwell too high on those ls1 coils, you'll fry them.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Oh, yes, that is tru, the K/X do fire in wasted spark mode, but, remember this post is about the E8, so he is firing them in Direct fire mode. But, you are right, the higher the revs and the higher the dwell you will over work them eventually, if you need that much spark i would suggest MSD ignition components that provide arc welding like spark.

GUITARJUNKIE28

i only said that because i wasn't paying attention on a k and followed someone's advice on the charge time. cost me a set of leading coils.

fc3s.org

Hmm, mostly on E8 and E11's, but we have used the same settings on E6X's (haven't touched a K in 2 years now) and I haven't ran into any problems with heat or cooking the coils if they are LS1's. All the LS1's I have used were from Haltech also, not that it "should" matter, but it could. Danzio Performance also uses the same settings, and he has done dozens of E6X's with LS1's on 13B's. I am unaware of him having any problems either.

Claudio, yeah I got most of my maps and pdf's back. I hate computers

GUITARJUNKIE28

there are a few variations of the "ls1" style coils--at least 4 that i know of.
are you using the kind with the big plug, small plug, heat sink?

fc3s.org

Those are the ones we use.

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Dave, are those the ones Haltech provides?

fc3s.org

Yup, same ones.

GUITARJUNKIE28

yea, those are different than mine. the ones i have are more compact.

maybe those can handle running at 100% duty cycle.

fc3s.org

Hmm, I've never heard of anyone burning them out with dwell time unless it was set to constant duty instead of charge. That would cook them pretty quickly. I am hooking up an E6X with some now. I'll let you guys know what I find out. So you run sub 4ms on K and X's?

GUITARJUNKIE28

whatever your max injectorduty cycl is, your ignition duty cycle is the same. @ 8500 rpm, it's somewhere around ~7ms.../2 because it's wasted gives roughly 3.5ms. you ever wonder why the hitman maps have the coil charge time @ 3.2 ms? well, that's why.
i'd put stock fc coils above ls1 coils with charge times that low.

that's not enough charge time for the ls1 coils. on the e8/11, or anything with sequential spark, you've got twice the available time on the leading side.

13BT510

If LS1 coils like really high charge time then how does this make sense?

if you set charge time to 5 ms and run the engine to 8500RPM where you only have 3.5ms available to charge then the ECU fires the coil after 3.5ms and starts the next charging cycle. This is actually LESS work for the coil because its discharging after only 3.5ms not 5ms.

Hitman uses 3.2ms because he isnt using LS1 coils, he isnt using ls1 ignitors so his maps reflect this.

This is a stupid argument - GM runs those coils at 12V at a 4.5ms charge time at low RPM, at high rpm 4.2ms so i dont think that there is much of a drop in spark energy in that .3ms. This is what GM uses i say we go with that.

and just so everyone can be right - GM also at times run those coils with a charge time of over 8.8ms and at other times as low as 2.8ms...GM use a full 3D map for deciding what dwell time to use.

GUITARJUNKIE28

why do you think i swapped out the leading for msd's?



your gm argument doesn't count, since they fire every 2 rotations of the crankshaft. rotaries fire twice as often, remember? and the leading fire 4 times as often when you're in wasted mode.

for the 8500 rpm argument, that's more for the bp, pp, and shorty manifold guys. i don't typically spin my motor much past 7k, unless i'm doing a burnout or i misshift.

13BT510

So you only spin your engine to 7K you should have even less problems.

There is no argument in my post about how GM runs the coils - i just posted FACTS there. Something that appears to be lacking for the most part in your posts.
So you setup a set of LS1 coils incorrectly and burned them out - does that now make you an expert in LS1 coils?
Personally id prefer to take advice from the guys that have setup multiple sets of these coils on many different engines and never had a problem.

rx7lover0147

sorry to switch gears here but what about the bosch coils can those be ran without a booster? or how would you get those to work with an e8

Claudio RX-7

iTrader: (1)

When you say booster, do you mean Igniter? if so, no, the Haltech line of ECUs doesnt control the coils directly, hense, no built in igniters. You need to purchase either separate igniters, or coils with igniters, or some form of CDI box to act as igniter.

GUITARJUNKIE28

rotary engine in wasted spark mode fires the leading coils 14k times a minute @ 7k rpm. gm motor fires each coil 3500 times @ 7krpm.

you don't see how you're comparing apples to oranges? sorry if you don't like the math behind it, but the math doesn't change.

13BT510

Im not afraid of the math - and im not afraid that 14000 sparks per minute could cause a problem for my coil either. Sure it sounds like a big number compared to 3500 sparks per minute - but lets take a step back for a minute and think about my old oil filled points operated ignition coil that would happily see 6500 RPM in my V8 (before the valves bounced) when it had a distributor.

Coil technology has come a long way since then and then my little oil filled coil was cranking out 26000 sparks per minute quite happily. So please dont try scaring people with big numbers and math because its just not going to work.

Im glad that you are happy with your MSD coils - but please dont try and scare other people into doing the same things because YOU couldnt work out how to setup GM coils.

GUITARJUNKIE28

you're not getting it.

the coil isn't working anywhere near as hard in a piston application. kindda like the guy that has a motor last forever because he only does freeway driving, compared to a race car engine that lasts one or two seasons... get it?