Alright I had my car running some time ago, then Parked it cause of winter.
Now I was upgrading the tubo, and dp, wg.. manifold.. etc.
Nothing I changed was electrical. Now I cannot get my car to run the battery I had was dead now I have an optima in there and she still isn't working properly.
So now I ask why won't my car start.
I see 188 rpm when cranking and the ocasional 255 rpm. I have the timming locked at -5. and it still won't fire I can smell fuel and the timing light picks up on the leading. So I have spark... I just can't figure out what is going on.
If you want to see my map I will email it to you.
If someone could just give me a hand. I cannot figure it out.. The car has been sitting in a heated garage for two days and the haltech indicates a coolant temp of 15 degrees Celcius. and air of 18 degrees Celcius.

Help me out guys!
Thanks
Jeffrey

 

Help!... Please?

 

Anybody got any suggestions.
I just verified that the timing (via timing light) is 5 ATDC
There is fuel I can smelll it,
I have tried making the maps richer and leaner but alas to no avail
I have tried advancing and retarding the timing but alas to no avail.
Does anybody have a Map that they know to work from 0 deg C and up?
I am confused as to what is going on. if somebody wants to take a look at my map I will email it to you. just let me know.
Please somebody help a fellow desperate Haltech/seven owner out!!!

 

Email it to me if you like. Are you running an E6K, E6X or an E11? I have read that it's possible for the Map to get corrupted just by powering the ECU down. If you have a recent map that you know is good, then reload it and see what happens.

You should check that the plugs are all firing, not just the leading ones. Also try locking the timing (on Leading) to between 5 to 15 BTDC. In the Split map, make sure the Trailing is set to fire 10 to 15 deg after Leading. Also you could Log the fuel injection times (ms) and take a look at them afterwards. You might be flooding the engine!

Hope this helps,

Adrian

 

what is your email so that I can email it to you?
I am using E6X,
All plugs have been confirmed to be firing by shocking the hell out of me.
the timming is set dead on to the timing mark (leading) on the front pulley.
I will log a starting session for you guy's and post it here maybe it will give some insight.
Thanks

 

I just hooked the timing light up to the trailing plugs both of them,
Now I was wondering if this could be the problem,
The leading fires every half a second or so,
But the trailing fires ever second (maybe a touch longer) or so,
Is it possible for this to be the cause of my problem?

I also took each injector out and tested them on a spair fuel pump and battery I had lying arround, they each spray quite nicely and work. (as they should two were rebuilt and two are new.
Anyone with any answers or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You.
I have also tried several reloads of my map and none have made a difference.

 

Leadings fire twice as much as the trailings, so what you're seeing is normal.

I think your spark plugs are getting bad.
If you can, try and get a new set of plugs in there...

I'm busy with New Years stuff right now (out-of-town), but if you're still stuck on this problem when I get back next week, I wanna peek at your map just to make sure nothing funny is going on?


-Ted

 

The plugs are brand new with little more than 100km's on them?
But I will order some new ones on the second at this point I am getting desperate, so I will order a new set, and see how it goes the wires are brand spanking new no running time on them what so ever.

 

My email is adrian_ellis@btopenworld.com,
Try logging the following parameters:-
Engine RPM, Load, MAP, TPS, Injection Time, Calculated advance, Sec ign angle (rotary), Coolant Temp correction,home, trigger, trigger at last home.

Also take screen dumps of your Setup Pages (ie. for Main, Fuel, Ignition, Trigger)and email them to me.

Is your car an FC or FD? With the Ignition Timing locked to 0, check the timing on Lead No. 1 with your timing gun (On my FD there is a timing mark for 0degrees on the engine pulley). Does your timing mark line up with the indicator? It's easy to put the HT leads on the wrong spark plugs when you're doing things in a hurry. Hopefully you haven't!

Check the Trigger Setup and Ignition Setup parameters are correct for your car (as I'm not sure if these are loaded with the Map, you might have to re-enter them if again they're wrong). See sections 4.23 and 4.24 in the E6X manual for an explanation.

Finally, set the timing lock to +10degrees (advance) when you're trying to start the engine. -5degrees means that the (leading) plug is firing 5degrees 'after' TDC.

Adrian

 

Please use a _ between 'adrian' and 'ellis' for my email address.

 

my car is an fc and the timing light matches up exactly with the pointer and the the mark on the pulley for the L-1 of 5 ATDC
I will take a datalog right away, I will also try a new cas ( I doubt that is it) but worth a shot.
I will then email it to you today.

 

Ok I tried a new Crank Angle sensor and to no real avail.
I am running out of Ideas here are some screen dumps of what I have on my setup.

 

and one more

 

here is a zip file for my data log and my map if anybody wants to take a look that would be great.

 

My friends map has Trigger Edge: 'Rising'
Home Edge: 'Falling'

Aside from that it looks basically the same as yours...

 

OK I've had a look at your Datalog, Setup screen dumps and Map.

BTW I think Home and Trigger should both be falling. See the PDF diagrams on http://www.k2rd.com/haltech/drawings/rx7drawings.html

From the Datalog, Map and Setup I noticed:-
1) Injection time of 16.32ms is way too high for cranking, even at 6degrees C. I can see 6-7ms from -8Kpa to +1Kpa on your Fuel Map 1. Try reducing the values in these columns to 4-5ms, this may help.

2) Is your coolant temp sensor working OK? Is it 5deg C outside? The Post Start Fuel Enrichment map values are also contributing to the 16.32ms injection times. Try turning this off by entering "0" in the Post Start field in Fuel Setup. You can adjust the Post Start Fuel Enrichment map once you've got all the other fuel settings sorted.
Also try reducing all the Coolant Temp Correction Fuel map values by 1/3 to 1/2. This should help too.

3) Maybe your Throttle Potentiometer Sensor (TPS) needs calibrating as it is reading a constant 14degrees. It should be near 0deg when your foot is off the gas, and 100deg when full throttle.

4) The Leading/Trailing ignition Split of 22degrees is also way too high, even for cranking. In Ignition Trail Map 1, try 14deg at -100Kpa and 10deg at 1Kpa, then use the Linearise function (L) at the points in between. Then for 1Kpa up to 200Kpa keep it at 10deg.

5) The Ignition map 1 also needs altering. Some of the values above 200rpm eg. 37,38deg seem to be too high. 30deg should probably be the max. BUT to LOCK the Ignition Timing, you need to check the Enable Lock Timing checkbox in the Ignition Setup window. Then set the Locked value to between +10deg and +15deg. Then, with your Timing gun, check that the Timing Mark on the Engine Pulley holds steady and does not jump around when you crank the engine! (Note: I'm not sure if the Internal Toggle checkbox should be checked in Ignition Setup)

6) Trigger Setup. This is VERY important to the Ignition system functioning correctly. On my FD there are 12 teeth (not 24!) on the engine pulley wheel that the CAS uses. I'm not sure about the teeth on the FC so check this. I've heard that the CAS on the E6X can be prone to interference from the alternator, HT leads etc, so check that the Home Counter and Trigger Counter values are increasing steadily. There should be an option for Datalogging these values in one of the engine data groups. The Home Counter should increase by 1 for every RPM, and the Trigger Counter should increase by 12 for every RPM (IF there are 12 'teeth' on the engine pulley wheel).

7) Fuel Setup. The E6X Manual says Ignition Divide By should be 1 for rotaries, but other people on this forum have set it to 2 and got good results. So try both.

Hopefully this will help getting your engine started. But there could be other problems as well. If anyone wants to correct me on any of these points, please feel free to.

Best of luck,

Adrian

 

Ok no this did no get my car started but I did decide to pull the plugs again, and it seems that the leading spark plugs are bone dry and perfectly clean, however the trailing is wet with fuel and seems somewhat suty. I don't know what would cause this, I can't figure out what is going on there isn't even a stumble.
I have tried everything that you said I have reread that haltech manual about a dozen times, I even started by loading a haltech stock load startup map and still ain't going the injector times are at 5.2-6.0 ms's so I am not entirely sure what would go on.
I have treid to restab my CAS about a dozen times and keep zeroing the timing.
I am at a loss I have some new spark plugs on order (they don't stock them arround here) so I will see if that makes a difference but If I pull these out and connect them to the lead and ground them they are sparking.
any other suggestions?

 

alright here is the last datalog I took, both of the leading and trailing timming light line up and timing is locked to 5 ATDC or -5 in the haltech timing lock menu.
Now I am having the very same result I think that there very well be some problems with the spark plugs I now there is spark. I just figure I will eliminate all possibilities in the mean time.
Thank You
Any suggestions?
Please take a look and tell me what you think.

 

Any reason why you got the baro lock off?
Most of us have it locked 1013mbar.


-Ted

 

yes, it is off because I was trouble shooting. Just trying to eliminate all things that complicate things. Plus the manual tells me... in not soo many words... do not use if you are a dumb ***... lol... I think right about now I fall under that catagory.
It doesn't make a diff with it on or off.
at least not to solve my no start problem do you have any suggestions?

 

I need to look at the maps myself.
I'm still not back in town, but I'm flying back in about 15 hours from now.
I'll check it out when I get back.


-Ted

 

What about the engine's compression? How about taking out a spark plug from the Front rotor housing and then cranking the engine. You should be able to hear the compressed air coming out of the plug hole (with a 'poping' sound). Put the plug back in, then do the same for the Rear rotor housing. If they're both OK, then take the plugs out again and squirt some oil (ie. just a few cc's) into each plug hole. The oil should help the compression when you crank the engine over again. This has worked for me when I have been putting too much fuel in when cranking.

You said in an earlier post that Leading was firmg once every 1/2sec and Trailing was firmg once every 1sec. This doesn't sound right as 200rpm is approx. 3revs per sec, and I think this should doubled to approx. 6rpsec as rotaries fire twice as often as 4-stroke piston engines. If you have or can get hold of a Timing gun with RPM readout (eg. a SnapOn gun), check the RPM signal on each plug wire. Maybe 1 or 2 of them are not firing as often as they should do! Or maybe the plug leads have been swapped around inadvertantly...

 

you said the plugs were bone dry? did you swap the fuel lines around? make sure the fuel feed is going to the primary rail...just an idea....

 

The engines compression is 110 psi cold (brand new rebuild with about 100km's)
As for the fuel lines yes they are correct I checked them about three times. I am seriously running out of Ideas,
I addes some two stoke oile only about 2ml in each lower spark plug hole before and to no effect.
Thanks for you suggestions guys' Please keep them comming maybe we will figure something out.
Jeffrey

 

alright I have checked the fuel hoses to the fuel rails. and according to the fsm they are correct.
I also disabled the fuel pump by removing the fuse, and the injectors in the haltech software.
Then I tried spraying WD40 into the TB and the engine didn't even try to stumble. So there seems that the spark isn't happening inside the engine, When I pull the spark plugs out of the engine they do spark when grounded but it seems that they are not sparking when inside of the engine. Or the spark is not enough, either way I have new spark plugs comming tomorrow to verify the validity of whether or not they are working. I know the timing events should be happening at the correct time because the timing light does show up on L1 on the timing mark on the pulley, and on T1 on the mark on the pulley consistantly.
There is fuel I have checked with an LED tester (that I made) and the primary injectors flash about 4or5 maybe 6 times persecond.
There is plenty of fuel flow and fuel pressure.
If you guy's can give me a hint or some help I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Jeffrey