ZERO-Modification, high-mount track wing (no drilling!)
02-12-13, 08:57 PM
#51
Not crying, simply responding and pointing out the issue and it appears you agree as you originally tried to post the thread in the right area. Maybe the mods will get it straightened out as they seem to have done with all the other threads. This was an issue a few weeks ago as I recall, not being able to respond to threads.
It's not personal, it just is what it is. Have a good one.
It's not personal, it just is what it is. Have a good one.
02-12-13, 09:08 PM
#52
Not crying, simply responding and pointing out the issue and it appears you agree as you originally tried to post the thread in the right area. Maybe the mods will get it straightened out as they seem to have done with all the other threads. This was an issue a few weeks ago as I recall, not being able to respond to threads.
It's not personal, it just is what it is. Have a good one.
It's not personal, it just is what it is. Have a good one.
https://www.rx7club.com/interior-ext...ek-kit-839491/
02-13-13, 08:15 AM
#54
This is a great idea for cars that are track focused but still driven on the street. Unfortunately I've already lined up my budget for the year so I won't be standing in line for one but I wanted you to know that there is definitely a market out there for it.
I'd also love to see a complimentary front design to go with it in the future
I'd also love to see a complimentary front design to go with it in the future
02-13-13, 10:49 AM
#55
It seems like general consensus from other forums is that the gtc 300 wing produces a lot of downforce that needs to be coupled with additional front aero.
From a racer from miata forums who is associated with Trackspeed Engineering:
"GTC-200 unless you have lots of front aero. The 200 makes the same downforce at 12*AOA as the 300 does at 0*AOA, but the 300 is more efficient (less drag) - the catch is that you cannot turn the 300 down much below 0*AOA. With my front splitter and no canards/spats I run ~8*AOA, which is less than most other aero cars in Cali. I tried the 300 and the car pushed really badly above 80mph."
From a racer from miata forums who is associated with Trackspeed Engineering:
"GTC-200 unless you have lots of front aero. The 200 makes the same downforce at 12*AOA as the 300 does at 0*AOA, but the 300 is more efficient (less drag) - the catch is that you cannot turn the 300 down much below 0*AOA. With my front splitter and no canards/spats I run ~8*AOA, which is less than most other aero cars in Cali. I tried the 300 and the car pushed really badly above 80mph."
02-13-13, 11:00 AM
#56
This wing upright that Sector111 created for the Ariel Atom may provide good inspiration. Notice how there are no holes that create turbulent air. Looks like a great design.
Sector111's Tasty Innovations Blog: Latest Atom Struts
Sector111's Tasty Innovations Blog: Atom Rear Wing Strut is Finally Done
Sector111's Tasty Innovations Blog: Latest Atom Struts
Sector111's Tasty Innovations Blog: Atom Rear Wing Strut is Finally Done
02-13-13, 11:14 AM
#57
It seems like general consensus from other forums is that the gtc 300 wing produces a lot of downforce that needs to be coupled with additional front aero.
From a racer from miata forums who is associated with Trackspeed Engineering:
"GTC-200 unless you have lots of front aero. The 200 makes the same downforce at 12*AOA as the 300 does at 0*AOA, but the 300 is more efficient (less drag) - the catch is that you cannot turn the 300 down much below 0*AOA. With my front splitter and no canards/spats I run ~8*AOA, which is less than most other aero cars in Cali. I tried the 300 and the car pushed really badly above 80mph."
From a racer from miata forums who is associated with Trackspeed Engineering:
"GTC-200 unless you have lots of front aero. The 200 makes the same downforce at 12*AOA as the 300 does at 0*AOA, but the 300 is more efficient (less drag) - the catch is that you cannot turn the 300 down much below 0*AOA. With my front splitter and no canards/spats I run ~8*AOA, which is less than most other aero cars in Cali. I tried the 300 and the car pushed really badly above 80mph."
For those who want to run the more aggressive wings, such as the 300, they can certainly add front aero upgrades to help balance out.
Once I get the wing completed, I plan to develop a "Zero Modification" front splitter. I actually already started sketching possible mounting brackets last night.
One thing at a time.
02-14-13, 11:05 AM
#58
Full Member
I think David mentioned something a page back about track legality and I have another thought. Before you go too much further, I would ask a few questions to SCCA/NASA Tech guys or check the rule books regarding the ability to have something "blocking view" of the brake lights. Even though the risers are only 1/4" wide, from a side angle you might be blocking a good portion of the light(s). Yes, 3rd brake light would help but a 3rd light isn't required and therefore might not be even considered as a main brake light.
I could be completely wrong (and honestly hope I am because I like this concept) but it's without a doubt something that needs to be considered and asked.
Regardless, thumbs up for product development!
I could be completely wrong (and honestly hope I am because I like this concept) but it's without a doubt something that needs to be considered and asked.
Regardless, thumbs up for product development!
02-14-13, 11:40 AM
#59
I think David mentioned something a page back about track legality and I have another thought. Before you go too much further, I would ask a few questions to SCCA/NASA Tech guys or check the rule books regarding the ability to have something "blocking view" of the brake lights. Even though the risers are only 1/4" wide, from a side angle you might be blocking a good portion of the light(s). Yes, 3rd brake light would help but a 3rd light isn't required and therefore might not be even considered as a main brake light.
I could be completely wrong (and honestly hope I am because I like this concept) but it's without a doubt something that needs to be considered and asked.
Regardless, thumbs up for product development!
I could be completely wrong (and honestly hope I am because I like this concept) but it's without a doubt something that needs to be considered and asked.
Regardless, thumbs up for product development!
02-14-13, 07:29 PM
#60
looks good and i am interested. i do have a few questions tho. one i cant tell how low this will go. are there any parts that go under the bumber. if so will it negate a rear under spoiler if your running one. but so far all looks great keep going cant wait for more pics. especially on a car and numbers for track days aswell
02-15-13, 01:44 AM
#61
this is interesting.. i figured it was going that route once i read the first post...
Should be cool, I'm semi in the same boat as i want a GT spoiler but i want the convenience to take it off at will so ill me figuring out my own quick release solution but there will be plenty of cutting =)
Should be cool, I'm semi in the same boat as i want a GT spoiler but i want the convenience to take it off at will so ill me figuring out my own quick release solution but there will be plenty of cutting =)
02-15-13, 06:39 AM
#62
Wastegate John
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looks good and i am interested. i do have a few questions tho. one i cant tell how low this will go. are there any parts that go under the bumber. if so will it negate a rear under spoiler if your running one. but so far all looks great keep going cant wait for more pics. especially on a car and numbers for track days aswell
Generally rear wings do not affect the underbody aerodynamics negatively.
It would only negate the rear diffuser if the mounting system went on the lower side of the diffuser. In which case it would disrupt the airflow.
02-15-13, 08:10 AM
#63
Looks like there might be SOME aftermarket diffusers that would require a little cutting to insert the bracket/upright through, but something like the RE track (vs. Street) have fairly large gaps where the mounts are. In any case, you're going to get more out of a real airfoil wing that this allows the mounting of than you would any commonly sold diffuser.
I robust discussion is what forums are for, of course, but it seems like very critical eyes are being applied here. This is a really ingenious idea to meet a very specific need. street/racing sanctioning body legality, reflector/reverse light use, etc., really aren't primary concerns. This is for an advanced track day/hpde driver who wants the performance benefit of this type of wing, without having to sully the look of what is a street car a large portion of the time. Similar solutions are available for Viper, Corvette, and Porsche cars that I've seen frequently at the track. If you're on the street, take it off. If you're racing, it's pretty likely that you're no longer disguising the "race car" aspect of your car, making the stealth quality of this product sort of unnecessary. Just buy an APR wing for $500 less.
Likewise, it's not an aero package. It's a wing mount. The need to balance the car to preference would apply to the addition of any wing. This just lets you mount the wing without having your wife refuse to be seen riding in the car.
Really awesome Tom. Can't wait to see what you come up with for the splitter. I'm totally envious of you hanging out at the shop playing with this stuff.
I robust discussion is what forums are for, of course, but it seems like very critical eyes are being applied here. This is a really ingenious idea to meet a very specific need. street/racing sanctioning body legality, reflector/reverse light use, etc., really aren't primary concerns. This is for an advanced track day/hpde driver who wants the performance benefit of this type of wing, without having to sully the look of what is a street car a large portion of the time. Similar solutions are available for Viper, Corvette, and Porsche cars that I've seen frequently at the track. If you're on the street, take it off. If you're racing, it's pretty likely that you're no longer disguising the "race car" aspect of your car, making the stealth quality of this product sort of unnecessary. Just buy an APR wing for $500 less.
Likewise, it's not an aero package. It's a wing mount. The need to balance the car to preference would apply to the addition of any wing. This just lets you mount the wing without having your wife refuse to be seen riding in the car.
Really awesome Tom. Can't wait to see what you come up with for the splitter. I'm totally envious of you hanging out at the shop playing with this stuff.
02-15-13, 10:04 AM
#66
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I was hooked after the first image!
I am currently running the stock wing only because the car came with it. I hate cutting holes in panels. I plan to go with a carbon hatch one of these days and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't like the load applied by these wings.
I would get the brackets only.
I am currently running the stock wing only because the car came with it. I hate cutting holes in panels. I plan to go with a carbon hatch one of these days and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't like the load applied by these wings.
I would get the brackets only.
02-15-13, 11:54 AM
#67
After researching different sanctions, the only classes you would be able to compete in with this setup is unlimited classes.
Anything an enthusiast would want to compete in would need a wing and structure that does not extend passed the rearward most portion of the car.
Unfortunately, since I would be competing in the Limited class, I would not be able to use this design.
Anything an enthusiast would want to compete in would need a wing and structure that does not extend passed the rearward most portion of the car.
Unfortunately, since I would be competing in the Limited class, I would not be able to use this design.
02-15-13, 12:18 PM
#68
After researching different sanctions, the only classes you would be able to compete in with this setup is unlimited classes.
Anything an enthusiast would want to compete in would need a wing and structure that does not extend passed the rearward most portion of the car.
Unfortunately, since I would be competing in the Limited class, I would not be able to use this design.
Anything an enthusiast would want to compete in would need a wing and structure that does not extend passed the rearward most portion of the car.
Unfortunately, since I would be competing in the Limited class, I would not be able to use this design.
