i have these hella lights on my rotary extreme sleek kit.
IMO halogen bulbs with this kit is pathetic and does not light up the road. The rotary extreme kit was a poor design to begin with and the halogen makes it worse. its similar to holding up a candle in front of your car.
I spent $60 bucks on a HID kit from a vendor here and the lighting is much better although I still suffer the cut offs that you get with any HID system.

This system looks interesting since it places the projectors in the stock housing. IMHO you cant use halogens with projectors, the HIDS are perfect for them as they focus the light directly in front of you.

 

I've seen this before--it's really hard to make any sleek light setup work well with the FD. First, the opening left in the bodywork after you remove the factory lights is very shallow and you have to install the lights really far back in order to fit everything inside. If you look at how these pockets are designed on a current Corvette or Ferrari they let a lot more light get from the lights to the road instead of hitting the inside of the pocket. A decent percentage of the light on most FD sleek light kits hit bodywork before anything else which is inefficient and also causes scatter that blinds other drivers.

Also, the material that OEMs use to cover their lights is specially chosen to be chip/scratch/UV resistant and extremely clear. Standard sheets of Lexan/plexiglass don't have this optical quality nor do they hold up for long periods of time. So you loose some light output there, too.

I'm not ripping on sleek lights from an aesthetic sense. While they're not my preference I can definitely see why they are a popular option. For me, I wanted the best possible lighting performance and decided that given equal lights, a pop up kit would perform much better than a sleek light kit.

-ch

 

If you are running rebased/aftermarket HID capsules in a projector designed for a halogen light source, don't think for a second that is what real purpose-built HID lighting is like.

The recent trend towards these cheap, Chinese-made aftermarket HID kits is really unfortunate. Many people try these setups in their factory halogen headlights and believe that they know how HID lighting should perform. If you just want headlights with that HID look to impress your buddies, then fine, go for it. But don't think that you are seeing the full potential of these light sources. They can even be outright dangerous to you and other cars on the road.

What Chris is selling are OEM-quality projectors that were designed by Hella (an OE supplier) to work with a HID light source. They make full use of the unique shape of the arc, and distribute the much greater quantity of light in a useful and *safe* manner. Beam width isn't even in the same ballpark as halogen projectors, and glare is significantly reduced. The photos don't even do it justice!

I hope you guys realize the value of what Chris is selling here.

 

Sorry, meant to say that the aftermarket HID capsules being used in a halogen projector can be dangerous. HID lighting can actually provide a significant safety gain, if properly designed. Rebased capsules fitted into optics which weren't designed to use them is not a proper design.

 

+1

Also, is there a RHD option?

 

added a wiring harness that allows me to run all four lights simultaneously when the high beam switch is activated.

How did you do this i have the dual hids and want to turn on at the same time Thanks

 

This weekend was pretty busy, so pics will have to wait until tomorrow. I'll post the info on the lights when the pictures go up.

The good news is that this kit works equally well with DOT or ECE lamps, the latter of which is clockable for left or right hand drive. Instead of HL68137 you'll use HL68151 which is only about $20 more expensive than the DOT version. It also uses an H7 bulb instead of an H9, but otherwise it's identical.

In fact, Hella makes most of their headlamps in both DOT and ECE, the latter having RHD options. This also includes many of their Xenon HID lamps.

-ch

 

It's been a bit cloudy the past few days, but I'd rather get these pics posted than wait for a perfect day. Here's a shot of the car. Please note that the driver's side light is the newer version of the kit (with carbon fiber, shown in the first post) while the passenger's side light is the older aluminum design. At present it's my intention to replace the AL version with the CF one.

New CF kit on driver's side, old kit AL on passenger's side (Click images for a closeup.)


I've had some questions about the installation. The process takes a few hours and requires the following steps:

• preparation of the Hella headlamps; one of the mounting ears needs to be trimmed off each housing using a grinder or Dremel
• the FRP frame requires several clearance holes
• the upper bump stop must be partially relocated
• the H9 connectors (supplied with the Hella 90mm lights) need to be crimped or soldered on to the kit's wiring harness
• the headlights are then assembled, installed, and calibrated

Any kit based on my setup would include a full-color installation manual.

I've received quite a few requests for pricing information about this headlight setup. If there is enough interest for a kit based on this I will start a GB thread in accordance with the forum rules. Based on feedback from people who have indicated interest, the preferred method will be to offer the kit directly and allow the buyer to source the lights separately. This will ultimately be faster and cheaper for the buyer which is always a good thing.

For a time I offered the original aluminum kit for $299 (without the lights) and I'm prepared to sell the new kit with the carbon fiber trim at the same price. The buyer needs to purchase the lights. If you go with the halogen setup (recommended) you're looking at about $220-$260 shipped to your door. So the total cost will be $520-$560.

Now, for the HID. The lights alone run about $1,050 for the 90mm and $1,225 for the 50mm. The install of the 90mm HID is more complicated and I'm hesitant to go this route. The 50mm can fit a lot better in the available space, and this would be my preferred option. But working on that solution is not useful until it's clear there is demand for an HID version. If you add the cost of the kit with the upgraded harness the HID option is around $1,550.

So, to recap:

• Halogen setup as low as $520 complete
• HID setup about $1,550 complete

I hope this helps. Right now I'm waiting on some test parts so I can make sure the quality of the carbon fiber will be up to my standards. I'm hoping to get this back by the end of the week. In the meantime it would be helpful to me to know if there are a lot of people who would strongly prefer and HID setup despite the additional cost.

Thanks again for your continued feedback,

-ch

 

Halogen would be my preference given the cost differential. This looks like a great kit!

 

The beauty of the Hella HIDs is not only light output, it's they are completely SAE/DOT legal for this application so you get the best of both worlds. I have to say the halogen light output is very nice and you will upgrade your lighting for a very reasonable price.

Chris, if you go the 50mm HID route, I'll be curious to see your lighting pattern and cutoff. I get great light output from mine but thought I'd have a crisper cutoff. Hella says this is normal due o SAE specs and the ECE (read not legal here) versions would have a sharp cutoff line.

A pic of the 50mm pattern (not properly aligned):



Note the pic was taken during the day in a lighted parking garage.

 

Love it. Just ordered mine. Couldn't spring for the HID but a substantial improvement nonetheless. Thanks for a sweet product.

 

Wow, I really appreciate the vote of confidence! However, since a) I haven't put the new kit into production and b) I'd like to create a separate group buy thread in accordance with the forum rules I've disabled the headlight kit product page on the website. This is my own fault--I wanted to keep the information about the older version of the kit available but in retrospect that's a little confusing. Sorry for the inconvenience! (SumTinWong, you've got an email and we'll handle this however you want.)

I'm getting my production samples back today which is a big step towards getting a GB moving. Please stay tuned!

-ch

 

No you misunderstood
Yes I am using a Cheap Chinese HID kit but in the same Hella Housing that Chris is using.
One that is already designed for Xenon light output.
Similar to your post about HID kits in a non-directional housing. The same can be said using halogen bulbs in a projector style housing.

I may spring for the HID kit after tax rebate, but i wonder if I can order without the Hella Housings since I have the same units on my Rotary Extreme kit?

 

There are two versions of these Hella 90mm projectors - a halogen filament version using H9 bulbs, and a HID/xenon version using D2S capsules. If you have the "xenon" projectors (68139), then you have true HID projectors. If you have the halogen projectors (68137), then you are using rebased HID capsules in a projector designed for a halogen filament light source.

I'm clarifying this because you said that you weren't impressed with the output of the projectors after installing a HID kit. If you had halogen bulbs in them in the first place, then they're not HID projectors, and this is why the output is disappointing. I think that, if you installed projectors actually designed for a HID light source, your impression would be very different (at least ignoring the issues of the enclosed headlights).

 

Automotive headlight projectors are designed specifically to work with either halogen (filament) or HID/xenon (arc discharge) light sources. Projector optics can be very effective for either type, but the different light sources cannot be effectively swapped between the two types of projector. This is why the mounting arrangements of halogen bulbs (H1, H3, etc) and HID capsules (D2S, D1S, etc) are designed not to be physically interchangeable. Some manufacturers with questionable ethics offer "rebased" HID capsules - they take a capsule normally deployed with a D2 base, and instead fit it with a plastic base which enables it to be installed in one of the standard halogen bulb housings. These are illegal for a reason.

At a small scale, there is a significant difference in the shape and size of the element emitting light. It may not look like much, but optics designed around the filament of an automotive halogen bulb cannot manage all of the light emitted from the arc of a HID capsule. A large portion of the light is wasted due to being outside the focal area of the optics. Obviously, there does still tend to be a net gain in output.

At a larger scale, there is a big problem of how to distribute the light. Anyone who has ever run a HID capsule in a halogen projector knows exactly the problem I'm talking about - you end up with a narrow, overly-concentrated beam with too much foreground illumination, which severely impairs your eyes' ability to adjust to the contrast between the lit and dark areas of the scene. The result is actually worse distance and peripheral visibility, and dangerous glare for other drivers on the road. Projectors designed for a HID light source distribute the light over a much larger area, reducing intensity for the reasons I mentioned, and providing a vast improvement in field of view.

OEM projectors sometimes also use foreground limiters to reduce the amount of light projected onto the road immediately in front of the car. This is to help with the contrast issue and improve distance visibility, but can also serve to reduce reflected glare from the surrounding headlight enclosure.

Another issue that Chris explained has to do with the design of the enclosure. On cars where the body was not originally designed for them, the "sleek" or integrated headlight enclosures provide a narrow viewport to the road ahead. Especially with purpose-built HID projectors, these housings act like blinders, limiting the width of the projected beam. In this case, no matter how wide the beam, you will never be able to make full use of it anyway. And worse, these enclosures can also produce significant reflected glare to other drivers.

Sorry for the long post, and I didn't mean to interfere with your thread, Chris. Hopefully, this information will help to clear up any confusion about projector types and the differences between halogen and HID light sources. A lot of these design considerations aren't obvious to the average consumer.

 

Very informative post and i think puts an end to all the HID arguments.
Im content with my HID kit for now, but you have brought to my attention the difference between the two. I think i will purchase Chris' HID unit with 68139. Thanks!

You are correct I have the 68137 unit.
The 68139 wasnt available when i bought my rotary extreme sleek kit back in 1998. They had an option for HIDs but it wasnt the 68139.


BTW the light output from the H9 HID retrofit isnt that bad and works well with the 68137 housing. The poor light output I mentioned came from using the halogen in the 68137. My side marker lights were brighter than the headlights themselves. I had this same problem in my AMG with the fogs. I bought projector fog lights (dont know if they were meant to be used with HIDs) and they produced a poorer light output than the stock ones. When i put in HIDs the light output was ten times better.

 

Alright, we have some updates!

First off, I received my cut samples of carbon fiber. I have to say it was a bit of a disappointment, but this is why we test things first. Here's a few pics: what you're looking at is a series of holes starting at #6 and moving up. What you should notice is a) there is some spidering of the resin at the surface and b) there is delamination of the fiber sheets due to the water pressure.

CF test pattern samples, click for closeup


Although it's actually hard to see this once the trim panel is mounted (because the screws cover the spidering and compress the layers) I know that the pickiest of customers will be unhappy. I know this because I am picky, and I'm not satisfied with it.

So I have two options: investigate another cutting process for the small holes or build a jig to drill them conventionally. Adding another external process is a big drag, so the second option seems best. The design for the jig is below:


CF jig, click for closeup


This adds to the cost of making a kit, but if there is enough interest I should be able to absorb it.

So I think I'm pretty close to ready for a production run. In the next day or so I'm going to post a GB thread that I'll link to from this thread. It will allow me to see how many people are interested in each type of kit. Please stay tuned!

-ch

 

paying attention to details like this is what separates quality from crap. Kudos on taking the time to create a good product.

 

Hey everyone--I wanted to let you know that it's official: we're accepting pre-orders on the dual 90mm halogen light kit. Details in the new thread! Thanks for all your valuable input,

-ch