Gauging interest: Spirit R and RZ reps with tilt rails
12-08-15, 02:28 PM
#226
Rotary Freak
iTrader: (15)
1.ATX-RX- (Black Alcantara, Tilt rail low mount)
2.Brekyrself (tilt if possible, low mount, black)
3.R_1 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
4. Gütfrerras (tilt, alcantara, red with black accents or vice versa)
5. unreal-icarus (Black Alcantara with/without red accents, Tilt rail low mount)
6. BlinD26 (Black Alcantara, tilt/slide/low mount)
5. Wickedrx7 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
6. Paul_3rdgen (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
7. FourtyOunce (Black Alcantara, tilt rail low mount)
2.Brekyrself (tilt if possible, low mount, black)
3.R_1 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
4. Gütfrerras (tilt, alcantara, red with black accents or vice versa)
5. unreal-icarus (Black Alcantara with/without red accents, Tilt rail low mount)
6. BlinD26 (Black Alcantara, tilt/slide/low mount)
5. Wickedrx7 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
6. Paul_3rdgen (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
7. FourtyOunce (Black Alcantara, tilt rail low mount)
12-09-15, 05:40 AM
#227
1.ATX-RX- (Black Alcantara, Tilt rail low mount)
2.Brekyrself (tilt if possible, low mount, black)
3.R_1 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
4. Gütfrerras (tilt, alcantara, red with black accents or vice versa)
5. unreal-icarus (Black Alcantara with/without red accents, Tilt rail low mount)
6. BlinD26 (Black Alcantara, tilt/slide/low mount)
5. Wickedrx7 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
6. Paul_3rdgen (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
7. FourtyOunce (Black Alcantara, tilt rail low mount)
8. KingSlayer (Black Alcantara, slider, tilt, low mount)
2.Brekyrself (tilt if possible, low mount, black)
3.R_1 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
4. Gütfrerras (tilt, alcantara, red with black accents or vice versa)
5. unreal-icarus (Black Alcantara with/without red accents, Tilt rail low mount)
6. BlinD26 (Black Alcantara, tilt/slide/low mount)
5. Wickedrx7 (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
6. Paul_3rdgen (Black Alcantara slider, tilt, low mount)
7. FourtyOunce (Black Alcantara, tilt rail low mount)
8. KingSlayer (Black Alcantara, slider, tilt, low mount)
12-09-15, 06:35 AM
#228
I worked with the owner of Angry Panda and he is a really great guy to deal with. We worked on the rail situation for about a year but the progress was slow and we did not find an adequate solution within that time frame and I sold my car and could not test anything after doing that.
That was over a year ago, maybe 2 years now. We even worked with Sakebomb Garage about bringing these in and they reengineer the rails here in the US and get these ready for retail. In the end there were concerns with liability and the idea of importing a replica of a trademarked product without licensing.
Honestly I'm not one to care about something being a replica or genuine. In this case the seats are actually better in some ways over the originals and of course they are new compared to buying a beat 20 year old set of used seats. But when you import something to the US that is an unlicensed replica of something you take the risk of having that shipment seized by customs and destroyed.
That would mean that taking 10 or 20 orders at $2k a pop would mean I would be risking that loss or putting that risk back on the buyer. So we considered bringing them here without the Recaro logo and people who wanted it could get it embroidered here on the covers.
While I like these seats and the owner of angry panda. I don't think the person who started this group buy can guarantee what he is offering. It doesn't seem he has even tested a pair of these for himself. It's possible the seat rails have been improved and that may make these an excellent value. It's possible they have and I just have no knowledge of it as I haven't kept up with him on this.
To me the $$ involved and my reputation was at stake. The liability was also a concern if someone got into an accident and the seat broke and caused injury.
I'm surprised no one is asking these questions...
I was willing to take the risk myself when I ordered a pair to test. But that's a lot different then taking other people's money and crossing your fingers. At least it is to me.
So the questions I feel should be answered here are..
1. If you take my $$ are you going to guarantee I will receive these seats in a reasonable time frame to be discussed before $$ are exchanged?
2. If these seats are seized and destroyed or otherwise undeliverable who is going to be responsible for the financial loss? I would get this in writing.
3. Have these seat rails been significantly upgraded and tested since the last time they were tested 2 years ago? I suggest someone responsible with integrity get a pair a test them
4. Who is responsible if I am injured due to the seats or rails failing to protect me to an OEM standard in a crash? I feel this is subjective and a gray area. You cannot get these FIA certified due to the bottom mount but there hasn't been any sled test or crash test that I know of up to this point. IMO if it's indeed a replica in every fashion it's probably going to respond the same as stock for crash worthiness. But that's just baseless opinion.
I don't really want to cause harm here to anyone wanting these seats. I've had an excellent experience working with Angry Panda and I think we know these were developed from an enthusiasts stand point. There is no real money to be made in selling RX-7 parts these days. There are not enough of these cars to make a lot of money on sales to their customers. So the motivation is pure. But you still have to know what you are doing and getting yourself into along with the potential risks.
I will end this post in the fairest way I can.
Would I buy another set of these for myself? Yes
And I would likely buy other parts from Angry Panda
Would I import these in bulk and take on the risks associated with taking 10's of thousands of dollars of other people's money and all the liability surrounding it if they were not happy with the product or the product was lost due to seizure or lack of delivery and liability due to injury? No
If I bought another pair of these to test or use personally I would try to have a set of custom rails engineered to work to OEM standards.
12-10-15, 10:31 AM
#229
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (4)
I owned a set of these and wanted to do the same thing and bring them here to the U.S. In a group buy. I felt the responsible thing to do was to buy a pair and try them out first. The seats are very well made and they for great in the car because they are exact replicas. The seat rails on the other hand were not ready for retail. The seat rails would bend from the leverage of just taking on and off ramps and taking corners with some G force. This was tested on the street where the force will be limited compared to the track......
The people who are putting their names down are for the Pole Position seats that are FIA certified and look very similar to the Recaro's from Mazda.
I've got 1 major product I want to purchase to complete the car exterior wise. If and when that happens, I'll possibly look into getting some Recaro's. But as I get older, the stock seats are looking more and more inviting.
Only time will tell...
12-15-15, 02:04 AM
#231
I owned a set of these and wanted to do the same thing and bring them here to the U.S. In a group buy. I felt the responsible thing to do was to buy a pair and try them out first. The seats are very well made and they for great in the car because they are exact replicas. The seat rails on the other hand were not ready for retail. The seat rails would bend from the leverage of just taking on and off ramps and taking corners with some G force. This was tested on the street where the force will be limited compared to the track.
I worked with the owner of Angry Panda and he is a really great guy to deal with. We worked on the rail situation for about a year but the progress was slow and we did not find an adequate solution within that time frame and I sold my car and could not test anything after doing that.
That was over a year ago, maybe 2 years now. We even worked with Sakebomb Garage about bringing these in and they reengineer the rails here in the US and get these ready for retail. In the end there were concerns with liability and the idea of importing a replica of a trademarked product without licensing.
Honestly I'm not one to care about something being a replica or genuine. In this case the seats are actually better in some ways over the originals and of course they are new compared to buying a beat 20 year old set of used seats. But when you import something to the US that is an unlicensed replica of something you take the risk of having that shipment seized by customs and destroyed.
That would mean that taking 10 or 20 orders at $2k a pop would mean I would be risking that loss or putting that risk back on the buyer. So we considered bringing them here without the Recaro logo and people who wanted it could get it embroidered here on the covers.
While I like these seats and the owner of angry panda. I don't think the person who started this group buy can guarantee what he is offering. It doesn't seem he has even tested a pair of these for himself. It's possible the seat rails have been improved and that may make these an excellent value. It's possible they have and I just have no knowledge of it as I haven't kept up with him on this.
To me the $$ involved and my reputation was at stake. The liability was also a concern if someone got into an accident and the seat broke and caused injury.
I'm surprised no one is asking these questions...
I was willing to take the risk myself when I ordered a pair to test. But that's a lot different then taking other people's money and crossing your fingers. At least it is to me.
So the questions I feel should be answered here are..
1. If you take my $$ are you going to guarantee I will receive these seats in a reasonable time frame to be discussed before $$ are exchanged?
2. If these seats are seized and destroyed or otherwise undeliverable who is going to be responsible for the financial loss? I would get this in writing.
3. Have these seat rails been significantly upgraded and tested since the last time they were tested 2 years ago? I suggest someone responsible with integrity get a pair a test them
4. Who is responsible if I am injured due to the seats or rails failing to protect me to an OEM standard in a crash? I feel this is subjective and a gray area. You cannot get these FIA certified due to the bottom mount but there hasn't been any sled test or crash test that I know of up to this point. IMO if it's indeed a replica in every fashion it's probably going to respond the same as stock for crash worthiness. But that's just baseless opinion.
I don't really want to cause harm here to anyone wanting these seats. I've had an excellent experience working with Angry Panda and I think we know these were developed from an enthusiasts stand point. There is no real money to be made in selling RX-7 parts these days. There are not enough of these cars to make a lot of money on sales to their customers. So the motivation is pure. But you still have to know what you are doing and getting yourself into along with the potential risks.
I will end this post in the fairest way I can.
Would I buy another set of these for myself? Yes
And I would likely buy other parts from Angry Panda
Would I import these in bulk and take on the risks associated with taking 10's of thousands of dollars of other people's money and all the liability surrounding it if they were not happy with the product or the product was lost due to seizure or lack of delivery and liability due to injury? No
If I bought another pair of these to test or use personally I would try to have a set of custom rails engineered to work to OEM standards.
I worked with the owner of Angry Panda and he is a really great guy to deal with. We worked on the rail situation for about a year but the progress was slow and we did not find an adequate solution within that time frame and I sold my car and could not test anything after doing that.
That was over a year ago, maybe 2 years now. We even worked with Sakebomb Garage about bringing these in and they reengineer the rails here in the US and get these ready for retail. In the end there were concerns with liability and the idea of importing a replica of a trademarked product without licensing.
Honestly I'm not one to care about something being a replica or genuine. In this case the seats are actually better in some ways over the originals and of course they are new compared to buying a beat 20 year old set of used seats. But when you import something to the US that is an unlicensed replica of something you take the risk of having that shipment seized by customs and destroyed.
That would mean that taking 10 or 20 orders at $2k a pop would mean I would be risking that loss or putting that risk back on the buyer. So we considered bringing them here without the Recaro logo and people who wanted it could get it embroidered here on the covers.
While I like these seats and the owner of angry panda. I don't think the person who started this group buy can guarantee what he is offering. It doesn't seem he has even tested a pair of these for himself. It's possible the seat rails have been improved and that may make these an excellent value. It's possible they have and I just have no knowledge of it as I haven't kept up with him on this.
To me the $$ involved and my reputation was at stake. The liability was also a concern if someone got into an accident and the seat broke and caused injury.
I'm surprised no one is asking these questions...
I was willing to take the risk myself when I ordered a pair to test. But that's a lot different then taking other people's money and crossing your fingers. At least it is to me.
So the questions I feel should be answered here are..
1. If you take my $$ are you going to guarantee I will receive these seats in a reasonable time frame to be discussed before $$ are exchanged?
2. If these seats are seized and destroyed or otherwise undeliverable who is going to be responsible for the financial loss? I would get this in writing.
3. Have these seat rails been significantly upgraded and tested since the last time they were tested 2 years ago? I suggest someone responsible with integrity get a pair a test them
4. Who is responsible if I am injured due to the seats or rails failing to protect me to an OEM standard in a crash? I feel this is subjective and a gray area. You cannot get these FIA certified due to the bottom mount but there hasn't been any sled test or crash test that I know of up to this point. IMO if it's indeed a replica in every fashion it's probably going to respond the same as stock for crash worthiness. But that's just baseless opinion.
I don't really want to cause harm here to anyone wanting these seats. I've had an excellent experience working with Angry Panda and I think we know these were developed from an enthusiasts stand point. There is no real money to be made in selling RX-7 parts these days. There are not enough of these cars to make a lot of money on sales to their customers. So the motivation is pure. But you still have to know what you are doing and getting yourself into along with the potential risks.
I will end this post in the fairest way I can.
Would I buy another set of these for myself? Yes
And I would likely buy other parts from Angry Panda
Would I import these in bulk and take on the risks associated with taking 10's of thousands of dollars of other people's money and all the liability surrounding it if they were not happy with the product or the product was lost due to seizure or lack of delivery and liability due to injury? No
If I bought another pair of these to test or use personally I would try to have a set of custom rails engineered to work to OEM standards.
The seat cores were supposed to be vacuum bagged carbon. They are not. It's a layer of carbon kevlar on the back (looks really nice) and then inside hand laid chopped strand fiberglass, and very very porous / poor quality at that, with cheap resin. There are voids and air pockets all through it.
The steel inserts which (as I originally understood it) were supposed to be wide large encapsulated threaded plates, were no more than a small insert. If you twist the seat you can hear it splintering and cracking at these mounts. These are the ONLY mounts attaching them to the car (it's a bottom mount seat) so if the cheap chopped strand fiberglass breaks free of the small mounts in an accident... you're free to move about the cabin
In general the build quality was not something I'd stand behind... especially at near $2000. They were made extraordinary cheap from the foam in the seats to the covers. One good thing was the plastic pieces though, I did feel those were made well like the side straps and the passthrough pieces.
The rails were scary. It was not professionally made, it looked hand made out of thin gauge metal in China. Again we're talking about a seat. This is not something I would skimp on and offered to re-engineer them, but we couldn't get the rest of the seat in workable/sell-able/safe condition.
It's sad everything turned out this way as I honestly wanted to import them and would have if they seemed even a reasonable quality, but the fact was so many corners were cut from materials to production... I could't work with it. I still have one here dissected. I'm not interested in stirring the pot but I don't want to leave any doubts as to my honest views on the very serious safety issues with the seats. The concept was sound but the execution was shoddy at best.
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
Last edited by SakeBomb Garage; 12-15-15 at 02:07 AM.
12-15-15, 10:32 AM
#233
The only time (very simplified) a seat can be a problem for safety is:
- In a rear end collision
- In a potential fire
The seat itself is never subject to any kind of stress in a front collision. The weight of your body is stopped by your seat belt, and that is bolted to the car, and to the seat rails.
It could be made from papermash for all it matters during the collision. You are going forward, and the seat aint. It was and never are designed to take the strain from a collision.
The only exception are rally seats with extreme side support for head and body, and that is way more than any OEM seat in a road legal car.
Understand the decision to not make them 100%, as a company should never get being a product they cant 100% stand for. And if the build quality is poor, then thats a no-go for a company that delivers 100% in their other products.
But its not a safety issue unless the seat are made from cheap and regular textile, instead of automotive grade fire retardants like alcantara, and in the rare case you are rear ended and the neck support are not good enough.
I spent some time thinking about this since the issue with the OEM Recaros was brought up, and the answer dawned on me then that the seat dont need a heavy duty mount to the rails to be safe, the only stress that mount is going to take is the weight of the driver vertically, and the g-forces in corners and acceleration.
Or are there any flaws to this reasoning?
- In a rear end collision
- In a potential fire
The seat itself is never subject to any kind of stress in a front collision. The weight of your body is stopped by your seat belt, and that is bolted to the car, and to the seat rails.
It could be made from papermash for all it matters during the collision. You are going forward, and the seat aint. It was and never are designed to take the strain from a collision.
The only exception are rally seats with extreme side support for head and body, and that is way more than any OEM seat in a road legal car.
Understand the decision to not make them 100%, as a company should never get being a product they cant 100% stand for. And if the build quality is poor, then thats a no-go for a company that delivers 100% in their other products.
But its not a safety issue unless the seat are made from cheap and regular textile, instead of automotive grade fire retardants like alcantara, and in the rare case you are rear ended and the neck support are not good enough.
I spent some time thinking about this since the issue with the OEM Recaros was brought up, and the answer dawned on me then that the seat dont need a heavy duty mount to the rails to be safe, the only stress that mount is going to take is the weight of the driver vertically, and the g-forces in corners and acceleration.
Or are there any flaws to this reasoning?
12-17-15, 12:18 PM
#236
To keep to your (very simplified) argument. Yes, the flaw is the assumption that you'd only ever get in a wreck going dead straight forward and never at any angle. Once you put an angle into the situation you put heavy load on the seat. If you're willing to take the risk that you'll only ever run into something straight on, then you're free to put the China seats in your car. I would not personally do it or recommend others do either.
Back on topic-ish. It'd be cool to see SBG put together mounts to put pole positions in the FD without any cutting needed.
Back on topic-ish. It'd be cool to see SBG put together mounts to put pole positions in the FD without any cutting needed.
12-17-15, 12:32 PM
#237
To keep to your (very simplified) argument. Yes, the flaw is the assumption that you'd only ever get in a wreck going dead straight forward and never at any angle. Once you put an angle into the situation you put heavy load on the seat. If you're willing to take the risk that you'll only ever run into something straight on, then you're free to put the China seats in your car. I would not personally do it or recommend others do either.
Back on topic-ish. It'd be cool to see SBG put together mounts to put pole positions in the FD without any cutting needed.
Back on topic-ish. It'd be cool to see SBG put together mounts to put pole positions in the FD without any cutting needed.
I too would like to know what this "kit" would cost.
12-17-15, 01:31 PM
#238
The only time (very simplified) a seat can be a problem for safety is:
- In a rear end collision
- In a potential fire
The seat itself is never subject to any kind of stress in a front collision. The weight of your body is stopped by your seat belt, and that is bolted to the car, and to the seat rails.
It could be made from papermash for all it matters during the collision. You are going forward, and the seat aint. It was and never are designed to take the strain from a collision.
The only exception are rally seats with extreme side support for head and body, and that is way more than any OEM seat in a road legal car.
Understand the decision to not make them 100%, as a company should never get being a product they cant 100% stand for. And if the build quality is poor, then thats a no-go for a company that delivers 100% in their other products.
But its not a safety issue unless the seat are made from cheap and regular textile, instead of automotive grade fire retardants like alcantara, and in the rare case you are rear ended and the neck support are not good enough.
I spent some time thinking about this since the issue with the OEM Recaros was brought up, and the answer dawned on me then that the seat dont need a heavy duty mount to the rails to be safe, the only stress that mount is going to take is the weight of the driver vertically, and the g-forces in corners and acceleration.
Or are there any flaws to this reasoning?
- In a rear end collision
- In a potential fire
The seat itself is never subject to any kind of stress in a front collision. The weight of your body is stopped by your seat belt, and that is bolted to the car, and to the seat rails.
It could be made from papermash for all it matters during the collision. You are going forward, and the seat aint. It was and never are designed to take the strain from a collision.
The only exception are rally seats with extreme side support for head and body, and that is way more than any OEM seat in a road legal car.
Understand the decision to not make them 100%, as a company should never get being a product they cant 100% stand for. And if the build quality is poor, then thats a no-go for a company that delivers 100% in their other products.
But its not a safety issue unless the seat are made from cheap and regular textile, instead of automotive grade fire retardants like alcantara, and in the rare case you are rear ended and the neck support are not good enough.
I spent some time thinking about this since the issue with the OEM Recaros was brought up, and the answer dawned on me then that the seat dont need a heavy duty mount to the rails to be safe, the only stress that mount is going to take is the weight of the driver vertically, and the g-forces in corners and acceleration.
Or are there any flaws to this reasoning?
Front end accident... you fly forward, then rebound backward violently: There's a serious failure possibility
Rear end accident: direct failure possibility
Side impact: who knows
If you guys still aren't convinced I'll post pictures of the deconstructed replica seats. They're terrifying, and I would not get into a car with them install for fear of my own safety. And remember, we WANTED to bring these over to SELL them
so that should give some validation to my assessment of the significant quality issues
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
05-27-16, 01:32 AM
#244
and Oakland!!!!! Represent! I live here too, and commute to SBG in Santa Clara... best commute evar
We'll have to meet up for coffee and rotaries sometime
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
05-27-16, 01:33 AM
#245
We did put together a low mount bracket for current Spirit R owners
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
SAKEBOMB GARAGE LLC
www.SAKEBOMBGARAGE.com
Specialty aftermarket parts & service // Fremont, California
Contact: info@sakebombgarage.com
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