I've been an rotary fan since i first got into one back in 1999, and i'm finally going to take the plunge and buy a '94 or '95 in the next month or two.

I'm just curious why they left the US market. Were there some major flaws to the design? I can't believe that this beautiful and extremely fun to drive car didn't sell out completely. Were there changes in US legislation, maybe?

thanks in advance!
-Nick

 

wasnt it because the EPA, Crash testing, US demands, and sales? I have no idea, I have heard all of those. I dont which are true though...

 

It was truely a shame when they departed, but Mazda could not get the customers to pay the high price. The sports car segment was changing, look at the Supra, 300ZX. They priced themselves right out of the market. The numerous recalls on the '93 RX7 didn't help. People also have very negative thoughts about the rotary engine eg high oil consumption, needs rebuilding sooner than a piston engine, poor gas mileage, and a lack of qualified mechanics to service/work on the vehicles.

 

Mazda made the car too complex. (The whole "one-upmanship" thing that was escalating between Toyota and Mitsubishi and Nissan and Mazda simply went out of control) This had several effects - it drove the price of the car up, dealer techs weren't adequately trained to service them, and whenever you have complexity you are just inviting trouble.

So what happened is, Mazda had a rather expensive car that had a growing reputation for being fragile and problematic. Not enough people bought them to make it worthwhle for Mazda to make the car pass '96 emissions standards, so the car was dropped for the US after '95.

If the car was more popular, maybe they would have turned enough profit on the car for it to be worthwhile for them. I blame their "brilliant" idea of only making it available in turbo form. A non-turbo FD would have been lots cheaper and TONS simpler and therefore more reliable and less likely to fall into the hands of a dealer who diagnoses a bad vacuum hose or two as "bad turbos" or a "bad engine".

 

Middle aged "Muscle car era" men had an american car mind, and for $5K more that the FD, he could drive the "Legendary" Corvette off the show room floor.

I'm sure this didnt help sales.

 

awesome

well, i guess i'm officially in the market for a (pref '95) FD in the Louisville, KY area... looking to buy near the new year

thanks for the info, folks!
-nick

 

The state of California. Imisson standards there got to strict. No Cali sales, no profit.... oh yeah and everything else posted above.

 

That's BS.... Plenty of cars are sold 49-state.

 

There is a fine line between profit and loss. Those cars are not in the situation that the rx7 was in. Not every car model that is sold makes a profit. Some are kept in for other reasons. With the rising cost and competion mazda decided that the rx7 wouldn't become one of them. And yes alot of sales come from Cali. If your fixed costs can't be covered with high volume then you loss money.

 

This car was a great sports car, they can't replace the FD by the RX-8 which is a sedan sports car...

The FD has the most beautiful modern style, more than the Supras TT and the 300zx... The only problem is that people weren't sure of the reliability of the rotary engine.

Max

 

Oh, so that's why they left!

 

I agree with peejay. They just didn't make the car profitable for the US market.

 

It's really a shame, but here comes the Rx-8!

 

Because ford bought mazda out

biped

 

Ford bought 80% Mazda and killed the rotary. Competed too much with thier Mustang line, and too expensive to produce a rotary motor for just one car, where as most ford motor parts are interchangeable, and hence more inexpensive to build (ie-explorer heads are just ported mustang heads, etc)

 

well ... all of those were factors, but the main reason is simply because Americans are like cattle ... one person goes off in one direction, and the herd follows!

so some idiot decided that his $40,000 was going towards that Chevy Tahoe or Nissan Pathfinder and ... voila ... all of a sudden, a sports car is too expensive and too impractical.
when you mix in the CRAP that they feed them with the TV commericals (i mean, who actually thinks that a 2.5 ton Suburban was built to be tossed around like an Rx-7 or MR2???) you know what a i mean, flash a couple of horsepower figures and a few pictures of a stunt driver powersliding a Pathfinder through wet sanddunes ... and well, the masses believe it.

think i'm crazy???? well, why did the Rx-7 continue production up to 3 years after it left here in 1996? and hasn't anyone noticed that an SUV is pretty much every other car on the road now?

losing the Rx-7 demographic did its share to put mazda in the red, and i guess ford swooped in and stuck the final knife into the wound because it knew that it couldn't compete with it ... and mazda has all the rights to the rotary (if i'm not mistaken) ... so ford couldn't steal it and try to milk what it could. they did steal some of the design (look at the taillights of the taurus, the generation before this one ... then look at the back of an FD .... hmmmm????)

sports cars got shafted ... period! and they all died between 95 and 97, but the Rx-7 was one of the last to go.

just my 2 cents

 

Actually, the RX7 was the first to go. 300Z, Supra and 3000GT then followed. The market simply didn't care for sports car bc the mid 90s was all about SUV.

When SUVs saturated the market in late 90s, the more 'affordable' S2000, TT, Boxter, Z3, SLK arrived, which all pretty much costed about the same as RX-7, 300Z, Supra, 3KGT. Only this time, these are all fun roadsters and fit the image but offered less performance.

I think it's demand that drove the market and caused the death of FD in US.

I see a resurgence of sedans, sports cars, station wagons and cross overs in the next 5 years ahead. It's where the automakers are spending their money is R&D right now.

 

Wrong. The cars are in different market spots. That would have been like Chrysler killing the Diablo (back when they owned Lamborghini) because it competed with the Viper.



Not unless they bought them from Mercedes, which bought his (Felix Wankel's) institute.

Here is a list of Wankel Rotary engine vehicles.

 

nope!

1995 - the mr2/mr2 turbo - RIP
1996 - 300ZX/300ZX TT, Rx-7, Supra TT, and that god awful! 3000GT TT - RIP
1997 - Supra and 3000GT - RIP

i said the Rx-7 was one of the last to go because the deaths began in '95, but since Toyota and Mitsu did their cars in stages, as they tried to see if the normally aspirated cars could survive, i didn't count the deaths in 1997 as being separate - so i used 1996 as the terminal year for the sports car.

i know its a matter of opinion on that and you have the right to your, but the Rx-7 was definitely NOT the first car to die.

obviously i agree with your other points though ...

d1

 

well, i'm in no position to argue with you because i'm quite a bit sketchy on the facts and documentation, and you will NEVER hear me claim to know anything about laws or business politics, but this is how i read it ...

in the 60s, several companies bought rights to the Wankel rotary engine, and set out to develop it for various uses (but mainly cars) -

the 70s hit, and the oil crisis pretty much scared everyone out of the ring. Mazda chose to keep on making head-way! (and i, for one, am very glad they did) ... by the way, the list that you provided the link to, supports this

basically, when their patents expired, only Mazda and NSU renewed and by the time the oil crisis was over and Mazda started to develop the Rx-7, they bought up all the rights to the rotary engine (although they had to share it with NSU.

as for the thing with Mercedes, as i understood it, they started developing a revitalized interest in the rotary engine in the early 90s and them and Mazda set out to design a hydrogen-powered rotary engine, which they would share. Mercedes with their money and experience with hydrogen engines, Mazda with their development and expertise of the rotary engine ... but not with Mercedes owning rights to it.

Maybe that's why Mercedes bought Wankel's institute ... i don't know, i'm just speculating here ... because if you think about it, its a way to sidestep Mazda and own rights to the engine.

again ... i'm not arguing, because i don't know what goes into these international rights and patent laws, but my point was that other companies that let their rights expire, basically could not get into the game after they saw Mazda's success because Mazda had the foresight to make it so that they couldn't. NSU made a few attempts at cars and motorcycles, but other than that, they were not real competition for Mazda - hell, they didn't have to be ... they get credited right there on our engine blocks.

anyone that has some info on this ... i would be interested, because this has now sparked a curiosity.

 

I can see that the car priced it self out of the market but when you say that the public was unsure of the reliability of the rotary engine I don't see that. We all know that with a little love and care the rotary can go for tons of miles. As an example, my 91' has 203234 thousand miles on it and I bought the car at 185346. I can still take her up to 110-120. Of course there is a rebuild in the future but I am still amazed at how well she is doing.

 

OK. I just got a bunch more information from Michael Ancas "Mazda RX-7 Performance Handbook" Essentially we have been arguing semantics. Mazda doesn't hold the rights to the RX-7, they bought a license to produce the engine. They no doubt hold various patents (I would think) upon some of there design evolutions of the Rotary.

NSU was the first company to enter into an agreement to make production Wankels. Their engineer Walter Froede was the first to build a simple rotary, 1 rotor in a static housing.

After WWII NSU decided it needed help to turn up production. They decided to sell licenses for use of the NSU rotary design.

1st was Curtiss Wright (aviation). by the 60s, NSU was hurting and over 20 licenses were sold (Ford, GM, Rolls-Royce, Suzuki, Yamaha, Toyo Kogyo (to be Mazda), Daimler-Benz, Porsche, AMC, Toyota, Nissan, Alfa Romeo, Citroen, John Deere and VW). All of them dumped billions in, but nothing ever made it to production. Development was body slammed by the 70's oil crisis. The lack of fuel efficiency made them all stop development. Heck, the AMC Pacer was supposed to be a rotary!

Only Mazda stuck with it.

Any of my earlier comments were based upon what I read from that other site in regards to rights. That makes me think that the Wankel institute, or whoever owns it now, has the basic rights. Mazda is operating under the license they purchased in the 60s.

 

PVerdieck~

just for your info ...
there is a book out there (i'm not sure if it's still in print) it's called Rotary Engine(and i think the author is Jack Yamaguchi - not sure)

all i can say is the book is a thin hardcover, it's silver, and it has the Mazda logo on the lower right hand corner in black. that book is great! if you can get your hands on it ... DO IT! actually, i should try to get it for myself. i read it about 14 years ago and that was what sparked my intrest in the rotary engine (well, that book and my brother's Rx-7 )

but yeah ... just thought you'd be interested

d1