Testing new Cleaner for Carbon Stuck Seals
09-28-05, 11:13 PM
#1
Testing new Cleaner for Carbon Stuck Seals
I pretty sure i have a Stuck side or corner seal on my 3rd gen, motor has 120,000 miles on it, i pulled the turbos and checked the apex seals and they look really good, for a motor that had 120,000 miles on it.
But i used to work at a RV electrical tech, and i used this stuff called 4C for Onan Generators, I am testing it right now on a old set of apex seals and springs also have some compresion housing O-Ring in there. This way i can make sure that it doesnt hurt the rubber seal.
I will keep you guys updated tomarrow after i pull the stuff out of the 4C
The 4C breaks down carbon with out tuching it, and you can see it doing it, so cool.
http://www.hilltoprv.net/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=722
Here is the stuff.
I mean this is REALLY good stuff
But i used to work at a RV electrical tech, and i used this stuff called 4C for Onan Generators, I am testing it right now on a old set of apex seals and springs also have some compresion housing O-Ring in there. This way i can make sure that it doesnt hurt the rubber seal.
I will keep you guys updated tomarrow after i pull the stuff out of the 4C
The 4C breaks down carbon with out tuching it, and you can see it doing it, so cool.
http://www.hilltoprv.net/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=722
Here is the stuff.
I mean this is REALLY good stuff
10-04-05, 12:50 AM
#2
Update
Here are the numbers after soaking the motor for 2 days in 4C
I am going to work on the rear rotor some more, I pulled the turbos off and felt inside the motor and all 6 apex seals are there and not cracked as far as i can see them in the exhuast ports
I think this motor as been rebuilt before, fishie a motor with allmost 120,000 miles having 120 psi compression on both rotors.
And for a refresher here are the numbers before
I am going to work on the rear rotor some more, I pulled the turbos off and felt inside the motor and all 6 apex seals are there and not cracked as far as i can see them in the exhuast ports
I think this motor as been rebuilt before, fishie a motor with allmost 120,000 miles having 120 psi compression on both rotors.
And for a refresher here are the numbers before
10-04-05, 05:25 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Rx7_Nut13B
I think this motor as been rebuilt before, fishie a motor with allmost 120,000 miles having 120 psi compression on both rotors.
Stuck seals will always lower the compression especially on a high mileage engine. The corner and side seals can last to 200k+ as proven on the 1st gens. The 3 piece apex seals are less likely to last that long as the top piece of the seal gets thinner and thinner however, I see no reason for a high mileage rotary to "NOT" be able to hold high compression even with "maybe" 120k on the clock with zero carbon locking of the seals. Sure the apex seals get thinner with mileage, but that shouldn't impede their ability to properly seal during combustion events.
My current engine I know for a fact is original and it has 98k on it and runs great. I may try to use this stuff if it does completely eliminate carbon sticking and do my own compression test when it hits 100k.
Last edited by t-von; 10-04-05 at 05:30 PM.
10-04-05, 06:08 PM
#7
Hi all
Here is a update to all the posts
I did test 4C on the compression housing seals but havent tested it on the Oil control seals, so i am in the progress of doing this on some old 12A seals i have around.
Here is a pic
The seal has been in the stuff for about 2 hours now and seams to be fine, not harding or melting or cracking. Going to let it sit all night in it.
Here is a short how i did it so far.
( I did all this over a 2 day period )
1. I pulled the turbos and exhuast manifold off.
2. I had the Upper Intake Manifold off so i could remove the wiring harness ( In the progress of doing a Auto to 5sp swap)
3. Prayed into both of the Intake runners on the rear rotor and front rotor.
4. Turned the motor over slowly for a few sec. Use the P/S pump center bolt to turn the motor over it is easy and about the same size as the main pulley so you get the same speed. Try not to turn the motor over fast, this way you will keep most of the 4C in the camber.
5. Put you finger in the exhuast manifold and turn the motor over SLOWLY untill you feel the point of the rotor, then turn the motor backwards untill you think the rotor point is facing directly down. ( Just trying to soak all the seals)
6. Repeat Set (5) for each of the 6 points. ( I let them soak for a hour or so )
7. Turn the Motor over with the starter ( With the Plugs out, trying to get all that now BLACK cleaner out of the motor.
8. Put more 4C in the motor, and slowly turn it over and let the motor soak longer.
9. At this point i pulled all the Plugs and turned the motor with the starter, trying to blow most of that stuff out, Took a little bite to get it all out.
10. Check Compression, After that you can try and clean it agian if you are not happy with the numbers.
Here is a pic of the can.
This stuff is like a thick Foam that turns into a oily film, on the can it says to use a full can on a 4-stock motor, so dont skimp when praying it into the motor.
Back to the Oil Control seal, i will post what happends tomarrow.
See Yea
Here is a update to all the posts
I did test 4C on the compression housing seals but havent tested it on the Oil control seals, so i am in the progress of doing this on some old 12A seals i have around.
Here is a pic
The seal has been in the stuff for about 2 hours now and seams to be fine, not harding or melting or cracking. Going to let it sit all night in it.
Here is a short how i did it so far.
( I did all this over a 2 day period )
1. I pulled the turbos and exhuast manifold off.
2. I had the Upper Intake Manifold off so i could remove the wiring harness ( In the progress of doing a Auto to 5sp swap)
3. Prayed into both of the Intake runners on the rear rotor and front rotor.
4. Turned the motor over slowly for a few sec. Use the P/S pump center bolt to turn the motor over it is easy and about the same size as the main pulley so you get the same speed. Try not to turn the motor over fast, this way you will keep most of the 4C in the camber.
5. Put you finger in the exhuast manifold and turn the motor over SLOWLY untill you feel the point of the rotor, then turn the motor backwards untill you think the rotor point is facing directly down. ( Just trying to soak all the seals)
6. Repeat Set (5) for each of the 6 points. ( I let them soak for a hour or so )
7. Turn the Motor over with the starter ( With the Plugs out, trying to get all that now BLACK cleaner out of the motor.
8. Put more 4C in the motor, and slowly turn it over and let the motor soak longer.
9. At this point i pulled all the Plugs and turned the motor with the starter, trying to blow most of that stuff out, Took a little bite to get it all out.
10. Check Compression, After that you can try and clean it agian if you are not happy with the numbers.
Here is a pic of the can.
This stuff is like a thick Foam that turns into a oily film, on the can it says to use a full can on a 4-stock motor, so dont skimp when praying it into the motor.
Back to the Oil Control seal, i will post what happends tomarrow.
See Yea
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10-04-05, 06:12 PM
#8
Originally Posted by t-von
Does it evaporate? Do you have to rotate the engine over ever so often while it soaks?
Yea turn the motor over every few hours just to keep the seals moving up and down or in and out, You no
10-04-05, 09:35 PM
#10
Maybe work better, But my problem was i didnt have enuff compression to start the dam thing. This stuff is intended to have a whole can spayed into a engine while it is running WHOLE CAN
Auto = motor starting slower
Low Compression
NO START for me
Auto = motor starting slower
Low Compression
NO START for me
10-05-05, 12:08 AM
#11
Thick foam? Hmm so I guess you can't use this with a vacuum nipple on the UIM?
Rx7_Nut13B I did this same thing a couple years ago for my carbon infested 20b and the stock engine in my 3rd gen. But I used fuel injector cleaner instead. I may try this stuff. FYI acetone works really well too. I used some recently to clean the carbon build-up out of the side seals grooves in my 12a rebuild. It worked like a **** too.
Rx7_Nut13B I did this same thing a couple years ago for my carbon infested 20b and the stock engine in my 3rd gen. But I used fuel injector cleaner instead. I may try this stuff. FYI acetone works really well too. I used some recently to clean the carbon build-up out of the side seals grooves in my 12a rebuild. It worked like a **** too.
10-05-05, 08:58 AM
#12
Originally Posted by t-von
Rx7_Nut13B I did this same thing a couple years ago for my carbon infested 20b and the stock engine in my 3rd gen. But I used fuel injector cleaner instead. I may try this stuff. FYI acetone works really well too. I used some recently to clean the carbon build-up out of the side seals grooves in my 12a rebuild. It worked like a **** too.
That is a good thing to know
UPDATE:
The oil control ring has been in the 4C for a good wile now and everthing is still fine. I am happy with the results.
Have had the rear rotor soaking some more, going to pull some more numbers on it and post and them here. Hopefully i can get that last side number up above 110
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