Richierich

Has anyone tried zmax additive? Is it bad for rotory's?

Also I have heard alot of bad things about synthetics in rotory's is that true? Or have alot of you been using syn. oils with no problems.

One more note, resently I have read that synthetics have been cheating the system and are not really what they say. Castrol for instance is not as good as Redline.

http://www.texassynthetics.com/artic...KeptSecret.htm

http://www.redlineoil.com/whyredline.htm

JONSKI

Synthetics being bad for rotaries is an old wive's tale. I'm using Mobil1 15w-50 full-synthetic.

Castrol is not a true synthetic oil. It's premium grade oil with some additives. I believe only Mobil and AMSoil have the technology to make a fully synthetic oil.

iggypop90

personally, from what i heard, the reason you don't use synthetic in a fc3s is because of the oil injectors. there are four oil injectors on your engine, two allow oil inside the combustion chamber, not directly i don't think, but for some seals, possibly the apex seals. (not completely sure on the technical parts....
ANYWAY! in second gen engines, oil consumption is normal because of that, and synthetic oil does not burn off completely, leaving residue. regular oil does not. hence the diff.
although, because of a special coating on the 13b-rew, they eliminated the 2 oil injectors. which in turn means for them, they can run synthetic... dirty punks...

iggypop90

one more thing.... DONT USE Z-MAX!!!! i work in a garage, if you have never seen what that crap does to the inside of an engine, it's a sight. it soaks into the metal and glazes everything. it might run for now, but you can kiss it goodbye for a re-build. and honestly, in a rotary, i have no idea what it does to the seals, you may lose compresstion.

JONSKI

The 13b-rew's also have rotor housing oil injectors to lubricate the apex seals. Mobil1 and AMSoil synthetics both burn more cleanly than most high-grade fossil oils. There is nothing wrong with using synthetics in any rotary.

iggypop90

That and the REW has a carbon-graphite coating which is supposedly exhibits 32% less friction than the BT's fluorocarbon resin coating. The new coating actually allows less oil to be injected into the combustion chambers, thus the 13B-REW requires only two oil injectors instead of four.

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/engine_tech.html

bliffle

I've been wondering about synthetics for quite some time. There used to be a lot of dire warnings about leaking gaskets, different burning, etc. But as time goes by I find no hard data against synthoils, and plenty of reports in favor of them.

Think I'll change my 85 over to synthlubes and see what happens. I'll probably use AMSoil.

B

(the)mouse

Don't use synthetics in a piston motor burning methanol, the methanol messes up the oil. Also, never use it on a new motor, it won't break in properly. Other than that, go for it. Sure it costs twice as much, that's why everyone started making "blends." Obviously if you water it down with mineral oil it's cheaper... Don't listen to their claims about doubling the time between oil changes though, that'll kill any engine!

TII Rex

I dont use synthetic. I was told not to by a friend w/ an rx7 because since rx7's are supposed to burn oil why put an oil in that isn't made to burn? Pretty much like what that other guy said. but hey, your car

TII Rex

also i thought about quaker state higher mileage because its supposed to sweel gaskets and seals but i didn't know if it also softened them or if it would actually damage and not help which is why i've stuck w/ conventional so far

ERAUMAZDA

Here is my two cents.......I am a certified aircraft mechanic and been to two oil testing labs. Oil is a very important feature in an engine....There are 8 things oil accomplishes. The three most important are lubricating, cooling, and sealing. Rotary engines were design to be used on regualr engine oil. Turbine aircraft use Synethic and burn lots of oil. They to have oil injectors, just like our engine. However in a process when oil is to be burn purposely the sythetic should be ashless type. Sythethic oil is design not to break down. It is suppose keep its chemical composition. Ashless type is suppose to allow for a breakdown and pervent carbon build up. Last thing u want is your chamber to get filled up with carbon chunks. So I think sticking to regular oil is the way to go. However don't put aircraft oil in your car or just be ready to buy new seals.

BTW FYI piston driven engines are not suppose to burn oil...so sythentic is good for them the oil is actually wiped back down with the piston rings/oil wiper rings to be recicrulated in the oil passage system again.

Richierich

Thanks for all the input.

I just put in my third engine a few weeks ago, so I'm going to give it a long breaking in period, say..... may before I drive it hard.

(the)mouse

Don't listen to ERAUMAZDA, he's clueless...

Mazda recomends using a "quality" synthetic oil (read NOT Amsoil). I can quote them if you like... As for a Wankel burning oil, it doesn't, it burns gas! The oil is in the combustion chamber as a lubricant just like a 2 stroke. Anyone that's actually spent any time running something with better performance than a boat motor use synthetic 2 stroke oil. Unfortunately there's people out there that misdirect the ones that don't know any better. That bothers me...and wastes YOUR money!

ERAUMAZDA

I don't remember Mazda recommending synthetic. Redline I believe is decent type to use. If a wankel does burn gas why does the 13b have 4 oil injectors. Piston engines don't oil injectors...they have oil passage ways. Also iit has a metering pump....why would u need a metering system if it just lubricates.

Tell us what performace mazda book or Mazda manuel that says yes synthetic is good. I will look it up make a scan and post it on this very page.

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

mouse, the insulting has gotten old in the past 3sec i realized you existed.

the rotary injects oil into the combustion chamber to lube the apex seals, therefore this oil gets burned with the gas. if it has a high ash content it leaves carbon deposits. also as was already said, synth is meant to resist breakdown. however, there are ashless synths etc that are supposed to be ok for injecting. i'm guessing the 2-stroke synths are like this. also carbon buildup can be damaging to a piston but a very quick death to a rotary. i know that redline claims that they're synth oil burns clean. also i have never heard of mazda saying to use synths. many on here that use synths also disable the omp and run 2stroke premix.

Sergei The Saint

Mouse, pardon me, but you are a moron!!!! I dont mean to bag, in fact i should probably erase the <- statement but you are attacking a man who knows what he is talking about. I too have heard this a lot. But hearing it just doesnt do it like, ............LOOKING UNDER MY HOOD. IN BOLD LETTER SAYS "DO NOT USE SYNTHETIC OIL" OK?

Now as for the 3rd gens i have no idea, from what these guys are saying this seems to make sense because i have seen a lot of 3 rd gen owners use synthetic, i dont know i drive a s4 t2. However i'm not blind and can read what it says under the hood, and its not Mazda suggesting synthetic oil.


Once again sorry for the insult, but i cant resist, ur taking out ur *** and attacking someone with lots of knowledge and good advice.

CCarlisi

guys, there are serveral multi page threads on this topic. Stop wasting your time blabbing and "search." A couple of them even list the ash content of different brands of synthetics and talk about other pros and cons.

-Chris C. 94 Mobil M1.

MRGSL-SE

I have an 85 GSL-SE, if you check the original OWNERS MANUAL that came with the car, it does not recommend you to put synthetic oil. I don't know how 3rd gens are, but for 84-92 13B engines with 4 oil injectors and an oil metering pump synthetic oil is not for you, just as been said over and over SYNTHETIC doen't burn completely. Just use a regular non-synthetic Castrol 20w50 and premix with with CD2. Also MMO is good to premix with gas EVERY gas fill up. It doesn't hurt to do the ATF trick once a month..... to get rid of carbon build up and actually regain compression... I haven't use redline, but it might be alright...

MRGSL-SE

I have an 85 GSL-SE, if you check the original OWNERS MANUAL that came with the car, it does not recommend you to put synthetic oil. I don't know how 3rd gens are, but for 84-92 13B engines with 4 oil injectors and an oil metering pump synthetic oil is not for you, just as been said over and over SYNTHETIC doen't burn completely. Just use a regular non-synthetic Castrol 20w50 and premix with with CD2. Also MMO is good to premix with gas EVERY gas fill up. It doesn't hurt to do the ATF trick once a month..... to get rid of carbon build up and actually regain compression... I haven't use redline, but it might be alright...

HeX

I've heard bad things about pre-mixing. Something about it clogging the cats and injectors. Anyone care to comment on that?

-HeX

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

depends on the amount premixed and what you are premixing with. if you are using mmo or a 2stroke oil, no. these will burn off w/o leaving residue. think about it. the motor is injecting oil anyway. now if you are premixing to much and using the omp then yes, i could see problems arising. however your injectors and cat wouldn't be the first to tell you.

XtremeRX

wow, obviously all of you know way more about oil than I! But now i'm curious about additives... Is it ok to use Dura Lube or Lucas with your regular oil, oil change????

jeremy

iTrader: (1)

i would say yes if your omp was disabled. however injecting lucas i have no idea about. whatever is in the oil might not burn cleanly. i thought about this a while back but didn't want to be a guinea pig.

cpa7man

iTrader: (2)

FYI - Most of the AMSOIL brand oils are ashless. I have been using AMSOIL 2 cycle synthetic's in my outboards for 20 years. Synthetics act as a surfactant (ie they clean) and will clean your engine as you drive. Mobil 1 as well is a high quality synthetic. From what I have been told Mazda tested synthecics in the 3rd gen and found some brands of synthetics to be of poor quality and acutually had some lubrication related failures, so they recomended against use of synthetics in general. I'm not sure a lubrication engineer can come up with a valid reason why high quality ashless synthetics should not be use. Of course cost is an issue as well. From an economics standpoint you would be better off buying a quality dyno oil and changing it every 1500 miles. But money being no object syntheics provide the best lubrication available for any internal combustion engine. THough it should not be used in a new engine due to the fact that it lubricates so well that the engine wont break in.

jeff p

i have used zmax in my fd and have had no problems. it claims to dissolve carbon and my engine runs smooth and quiet. it starts fast and i gained about one pound of vacuum on my boost gauge after about 30 miles of driving. i have a perfect 10-8-10 boost psi so its not causing any compression problems or apex seal problems.
i also had my fd smog tested last week and it passed without any problems (calif smog test which is very tough) . the smog guy said its one of the best fd's he has tested. my car is all stock with over 70k on the motor. the zmax could be the reason for passing the smog test maybe it dose dissolve carbon. i am not an expert in any way on rotary engines. i tried the stuff and it seems to work. fd experts please add your imput.