N Oo B

Seriously, I've had a facination with the Rotory for years.. and I'm curious what year I should be looking at.

I physically understand how a rotory works, but I don't know any of the specifics of any of them. I'm entertaining it as a second vehicle that I can tune, tweek and learn from.



Would like to get a turbo car. How is the computer system in these? tweek'able to more boost with a better turbo/waste gate setup? Drawthrough or fuel injected I suppose would be a question before asking about the computer..

Anyhow, going to do some more reading while I wait for replies =]

PercentSevenC

Read through all the FAQs and do lots of searching, they will help you learn these types of things.

Turbo cars are very expensive to maintain and require maintainance far more often. I would recommend against starting with a third gen because they are so complex and fragile (without reliability mods). Not to mention expensive up front.

If your budget is limited or if you're not already very familiar with working on and tuning cars I would highly recommend sticking with NA initially. You can always go turbo later.

N Oo B

hrmm

I was looking at my tax return in combination with this month's overtime.. Thinkin I'll have about 3k later in Feb for a down. By avoiding a dealership price I have seen a good variety of 3rd gens sub 12k.

So if I was to go with a older model, how does the computer system deal with boost if/when I apply it? Things like that make me lean tward starting off with a computer that can deal with it. I feel I have a good understanding of cars and can learn quickly, it's just a matter of starting off with the right platform to reach my goal.


Nice sporty car that gets 20-25mpg for work but has plenty of Yahooo in the right most peldal. I'm putting this idea as the front project instead of tearing into my 84 Trans-Am again. That's a little too much Yahoooo and way too much gulp gulp at the fuel station.

off work and headin for some more info on how the gearbox and other important parts hold up.. =]

Rocking Rotary

iTrader: (14)

If you dont know the rotary that well and buy a 3rd gen. It will eat you alive! The car is not for the faint of heart or ones with shallow pockets. Becouse of there age you are going to have to do alot of maintance to get them running properly for the most part.

As for your ecm ?'s if you want to up the boost your going to have to change the injectors. That means your going to have to get a stand alone which is not cheap either.

If I was you I would start with a FC NA for a while till you get use to the habits of the rotary. And then either go for a T2 or a FD if you like what you have been driving.

Honestly your TA my get better milage than a RX7 if it has a stick. MY FD gets about 13mpg and my FC NA gets about 20mpg.

Best of luck making your mind up.

N Oo B

hmmm, aye i do have shallow pockets. like i said, didnt plan on payin more than 12k to get started.

I highly doubt the TA would do better =P Solid roller Cam De-stroked 400 SBC (377) ran throu a manual 4 speed and 3.73 gears.. around 4,000rpm's down the freeway =\ pass anything but a gas station.


so to do any mods around the boost/fuel you NEED a stand alone system? I was hoping the stock computer would handle minor changes... wishful thinking I suppose.

sereneseven

rule #1 Turbo rotorys get horrible gas mileage when compared to pistons.

Yes you can find FDs for around 10k but expect to pay at least that within a few years to keep running nicely. ...pretty much expect to pay around 20k for a good nice running fd(be it up front or later for repairs and parts).

also if you are thinking of modding one add another 5k for PFC tuned, inj, ign, blown motor etc..... read the FAQ's in the third gen section it will answer most of your questions.

JDMRevolution

iTrader: (6)

25mpg?!?

Good luck on that.

With more boost, you will need more fuel.

I think on your budget, an fc is the best bet.

fluffysheap

I think the only rotaries that routinely get over 20MPG are the 1st gen GSL-SE and the lighter weight 2nd gens (86-88 base/sport/GTU). They are all very fun cars but actual acceleration is not that great. GSL-SEs are getting pretty rare and are much harder to find (and often more expensive) than the "lower end" 2nd gens even though performance is comparable. Turbo 2nd gens in emissions-legal configuration and decent condition are also becoming pretty rare, although they aren't generally all that expensive when you can find them. The '81-'83 1st gens were not as good as the earlier and later models because of inferior oil coolers. Serious performance parts for 1st gens are no longer common, although you can still get headers and intakes.
My rundown would be:
Simplicity: any carb 1st gen
Overall ease of maintenance: N/A 2nd gen or GSL-SE
Best performance: 3rd gen
Price/performance ratio: Turbo 2nd gen

If you're willing to look around or import a car from California, you can probably get a good 3rd gen for $15K or so. However, when you get into the $12K range, you are generally going to be looking at some sort of problem, whether that's body, interior, mechanical, or title. When you buy a 3rd gen, it's also not a bad idea to know where you would get $4K for a rebuild because you will probably need one eventually. If it's all you can do to pay the initial cost of the car you probably shouldn't buy it. The 3rd gen is really not much like the other rotary cars, it's much more complicated, a lot faster out of the box and not really intended to be a daily driver car like the others are/were. All that said, most of the problems with the 3rd gen have little to do with the engine itself and much to do with the needlessly overcomplicated turbo control system and the underpowered cooling and fuel systems.

3rd gens are generally better taken care of than 1st and 2nd gens - probably because they were originally so expensive and have retained much of their value. Still, even the newest 3rd gen is now 10+ years old, and time always takes its toll (please have exact change).

The Turbo 2nd gen is actually a pretty reliable car, it's not quite a Honda Civic but it's not going to leave you stranded every week either. The only things in the 2nd gen that are bad, as a breed, are the Lotus-inspired electrical system and the interior. The rat's nest and maintenance are not any worse than any other car of the era, in fact, I would say that the Turbo II is a better-than-average car for reliability considering its age and level of performance.

The 2nd gen and 3rd gen both have fairly limited ECUs, however, in both cases "piggyback" ECU upgrades are available that can fix this. (On the 2nd gen they often call them FCD - Fuel Cut Defenser - even though that is no longer really an accurate term on a quality ECU upgrade). Intercoolers, fuel injectors and pumps are also generally inadequate if you are planning on running increased boost.

Be sure to punch a hole in the oil filter a couple of minutes before you remove it.

N Oo B

Wow a very nice comprehensive answer. Living in Oregon I had no problem with finding a car in Cali, I could even get a ride down and back.

Of the many answers I've gotten from people, ranging from 3rd gen parts suck so you're better off buying a non-turbo and modding it to what you want to, they're too powerful out of the showroom to even learn about rotory..

I suppose it will depend on my tax return, and what kind of hours I can secure in a new professoin I'm appling for. Currently only pullin 2-2.5k a month (1k-1.4k monthly bills) but if I can get in as an apprentice things will be looking much easier to afford. starting 3.5k monthly or so.

The Idea I will have to rebuild, makes me wonder what it would take to buy a already blown car and just start from there. I'm not completely dumb when it comes to engines. Granted most of the times I've torqued engines together they were chevy, all it takes is a spec sheet of torque, bolt order and what clearances you HAVE to check.

Keeping in mind this is a 2nd vehicle, I'm not looking for something that I have to drive all the time...but something I'd like to afford gas for when It's running. I know for 1/4 the money I could do a camaro or something and drive around at 10mpg.

fluffysheap

If you can rebuild a piston engine you can rebuild a rotary, but I wouldn't want to start that way with an RX-7. But rotaries are either blown or they are not, unlike piston engines where you can have valves, head, or whatever problems and do partial overhauls. So if something goes wrong with the engine internals it's a full rebuild. But a full rebuild is comparatively easier. It's not cheap, though - rebuilding a rotary pretty much means taking it completely apart, checking which parts are still usable, buying new ones for everything that you can't keep, and reassembling it. Depending on how you killed the motor the rebuild might be more or less expensive, if you overheated for instance you could warp the rotor housings and that's expensive, if you cracked an apex seal maybe all the rest of the metal is fine and that's not going to cost you as much in parts. But you still have to take it completely apart. And, as with most Japanese cars, the parts are a little more expensive than they really ought to be. But if you join Mazdaspeed they will give you a nice discount, and all you have to do is compete in a handful of autocrosses (what a hardship! ). Doing everything yourself, and if you don't need new rotors or housings, I can see doing a rebuild for under $1K. Even if you end up doing it twice, it'll still cost less than one pro rebuild, but you'll have a lot more time invested in it.

The 3rd gen really has to be seen to be believed, you would not think that many hoses, turbos, pumps, valves, tanks, wires, and pipes could be crammed into such a small space, with so many possible ways to hook them up wrong. Also, under them all is an engine! The 3rd gen motor is very similar to the 2nd gen turbo motor, but the plumbing sure isn't.

Fuel economy even on the turbo cars isn't that bad if they are stock or lightly modified. I usually got 18-20 mpg on my (stock) 2nd gen turbo. 3rd gen is worse, but not that horrible, it depends how you drive it. If you stay off the boost unless you want to go fast, you'll get good fuel economy - but this is hard in the 3rd gen because the boost comes on at such low RPM. But one hidden cost on the turbo cars is having to use premium fuel, which is about 10% more expensive than the 85 octane you can put in the NAs.

FC3MAN

I'd go with the FC,there lighter so ya can go faster making less power..sorry FD guys.there exspensive too.but any rx-7 is better than none.

moonless

start with a nice na fc there plentiful easy to learn on and you can always sell it for what you got in it or a little more if you find a car that needs a little work and fix up.

OnlyOnThurs

Start with the FB...so much more fun than the FC (and much cheaper to maintain..especailly when compared to the FD) .....sorry guys i dont mean to knock you but our FBs are really a **** load of fun to autocross...its like driving a badass go-kart. That and our engines do last alot longer (typically anywhere from 150k to 250k depending on how well it was maintained) than the other two generations. Once you actually drive an FB you WILL understand what im talking about. the only big problem with FB's is that we do NOT have a lot of aftermarket support









WIN.

PercentSevenC

I'm definitely with Onlyonthurs, but FB stuff is starting to get more expensive and harder to find. Just a thought.

KhanArtisT

iTrader: (2)

True but the FD is newer, more refined and has better styling. S5s are just as heavy as FDs are, so that only leaves S4s to compare against. We all know the 1st and 2nd gens were "wimps" compared to the 3rd I'd still start out with an FB though, you can work on it and mod it and if you screw something up it wouldn't cost you much.

NissanConvert

iTrader: (1)

2nd gen n/a, develop a relationship with a knowledgeable board member and then go out shopping. learn the rotary before you learn the turbo rotary.