im4u

thanks ted and peejay thats why ur rotor gods..i was just relating how the more twisting parts u have i noticed torque went up sorry honest mistake.so do u think the recycling of the unused air causes the lower torque?what causes it to be so low in this engine?

peejay

Torque is actually higher than other 13Bs, most likely because of the higher compression ratio and better intake manifold tuning.

If you mean why it's lower than the turbo models... that's just obvious. Forced induction is artificial displacement - you're forcing more mass of air into the engine.

im4u

nah as far as the turbo goes i can understand but i thought an fd engine with a turbo was like 150 hp/130-140 lbs of torque

peejay

FD engine with turbo is 217lb-ft and 255hp.

N/A 13Bs are around 135-140lb-ft of torque. The Renesis has much higher torque than that.

glenn

Heres some pics of thos renesis housings that ted said did not exist. I picked up these housings from Dalton Automotive. There are two types here. One has the exhaust port partially machined but not all the way through into the chamber. It appears to have had coolant running through this partially machined port.

The other has not been machined at all. Both housings have been used and have wear marks. There also seems to be an extra oil injection port on top of the housings.

If any one would like any pics or info let me know

Glenn

glenn

pic 2

glenn

pic 3

glenn

last pic

krystallcati

Pic 3 says "13B" right on top of the casting. Just an open-minded question, how do you know these are Renesis castings?? I'm not doubting you, I myself wouldn't know any of them by sight. What makes this identifiable as a Renesis casting??

glenn

There identifiable because they have no exhaust ports. Because they have clearly been used my only conclusion is that that they must have come from a side port exhaust engine, ie Renesis. I can post more pics if any one is interested.

zyounker

ha, that is great glenn!


Find any rotors in that pile that where a little lighter or had a different dimple?


-Zach

krystallcati

Ahh, I see Glenn, thanks for the info.

--Eric

easy p-cheesy

I thought these were renesis housings...

http://media.mazda.ch/dossiers/RX-8/...h/img_2776.jpg

darkness_and_light

I realize this is kind of thread jacking, but since everyone is telling everyone to use search and never repeat a previous thread, I’m simply apologizing and moving on. Right now I’m doing research before I begin work on an Initial D fanfiction. The specific issue I’m researching is a RX-8 engine swap into an RX-7 FC3S. I’m less concerned with the more technical aspects of making a swap work (mounting the engine, electronics, etc.) because this is a work of fiction. I’m not going to delve into the nitty-gritty details in the story because people really won’t care that much and its hard to work that into dialogue. Additionally, the character who owns the car Takahashi Ryousuke is rich, lives in Japan, and in general has a lot of resources. I’m told that if you throw enough money at a problem, you can usually make it go away.

Here is what I’m going to focus on. After swapping the engine the turbo, front-mount intercooler, and the intercooler piping will be removed resulting in an overall decrease in weight along with the decreased weight of the engine itself. This will also decrease the weight at the front of the car essentially reducing the rotational mass of the car itself. Therefore, it will require less force and traction to rotate the car since rotational inertia is lower. On the other hand, the front of the chassis will be stiffened with various types of bracing. This will increase the weight back up a bit, but since the weight will not be as far forward, rotational inertia will be less then it was initially. The weight distribution of an FC is about 50:50 so these changes probably shifted the distribution to 48:52 or something like that and in general messed with the center of gravity, etc. To compensate, a carbon fiber rear hatch will decrease rear weight and the placement of the structural bracing that was added in the front could be tinkered with. Finally, although I’m not familiar with the specifics on how this works, the suspension could be tuned for heavy understeer during acceleration. This concept was used during the Initial D first season on a AE86. This would help the driver cope with the increased sensitivity of the car to oversteer and let him begin acceleration earlier.

Essentially the concept is to give the car a slight decrease in weight, less body flex, comparable power in a NA form, a slightly higher tendency to oversteer, and earlier acceleration out of corners. I know next to nothing about rotary engines and the cars that they power. In fact I’m still rather new to cars in general. However, I think I understand the underlying concepts passably well. I would appreciate constructive input on how I could make this work in a fictional story without “blowing the welds on the intake” or “not double clutching.”

As a final note, I’m wondering about the feasibility of sticking a supercharger into this Frankenstein car.

KevinK2

but there is a lt of light f-wheel logic to it. heald a constant speed on brake type dyno, no diff in power to wheels with light rotors.

for 1/4 run, early gears where rpm change quickly, less of the pressure-induced tq is lost in accelleration of rotors. In big gears, slow acceleration, light rotors have nill effect. should be handy downshifting though.

black_sunshine

I've noticed a trend among the "I wanna renesis in my xxx car" crowd. They instantly assume that the engine is like a holy grail; that is somehow overcomes all the laws of physics and that by swapping the rotors into a paripheral housing that it'll be able to reliably maintain the 10k redline as well as have 230hp. The renesis is becoming the next "n/a to TII swap." Everyone knows that turbos are more complex to work on/tune, and so they cop out and assume that since the Renesis is an NA that it'll make their lives easier. And it CAN, but the associated logic that most seem to have is serriously flawed (present company excluded, obviously).

Firstly, if you were to swap the renesis rotating assembly into paripheral housings (my personal speculation), it wouldn't last long at 10k rpm. Why? Because of the seal "flutter" as they go over the exhaust port. The apex seals are physically shorter (in height, not length), and they are not designed to withstand that sort of abuse (they'd roll out/crack/break rather quickly). This is just my opinion, so don't take it as the be-all end-all; just an idea that many haven't thought about.

Everyone seems to think that by swapping the rotating assy that they'll magically get a BIG performance boost. Tell me, what is a gain in Compression Ratio of .3 worth? 9.7:1 vs 10:1 is equivalent to running .46psi of boost. Why donesn't everyone try thinking in reverse; Try putting turbo rotors in a renesis and turbo/supercharge it. I know that'd make some nice and efficient power.


The majority of the renesis's power is made by its port configuration and intake manifold design. On all rotaries, the LIM if always a weak point. Look at a R26b. By adding telescopic intake runners, they effectively gained above 50hp (albeit a completey different story). The almost total lack (and substantial gain in port area versus a paripheral design) of overlap helps to re-burn hydrocarbons, as well as providing a more efficient (as long as port duration is concerned) pathway for exhaust gasses. The lack of a paripheral exhaust port means very little seal flutter; higher redlines as well as increased durability. Not to mention the improved seal lubrication system.

If someone has money to spen, get a renesis rotating assy and put it into your current engine. Me, and all the other rotary people, are interested to see how long it lasts at 10k with the stock seals. You can already see what I speculate will happen... Though I am more than willing to accept if I am proven wrong.

Just as a side note, HP is calculated from torque. Torque = T. RPM=Revolutions Per Minute. T*rpm/5252. For those confused about how torque/horsepower works, go to http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm