NOTA V6

That's rediculous. Regardless of PS or not, you should be driving with both hands on the wheel, and remove your shifting hand only when needed to shift.

I see your point, if your thing is autocross. But a manual steering car can be "one armed" all day long at regular street speeds or better.

There is nothing more to be proven by this banter. I'm done.

FPrep2ndGenRX7

I think it all depends on the tire size you have and what your doing with your car. On my daily driver I'll take P/S anyday. I don't race on the street and it doesn't drag the engine down much at all. On my FP autocross car it currently doesn't have P/S but it will be reinstalled after I get the 16" x 10" rims with racing slicks. The car is an autocross only car and the power steering will be key to fast transitions thru slaloms and such.

BlackDragon

Ok, I was trying to post this damned message yesterday but I guess this site was down or something. Here it is:

How is that rediculous? I know several situations where I need to downshift in the middle of a turn and I cannot keep both hands on the wheel. Obviously the "hand strapped to the shifter" idea is quite dramatic but thats the point I was trying to make. The driver of the model without PS would have a MUCH harder time controlling the car. Now, you are PARTIALLY correct in saying that a "manual steering car can be 'one armed' all day long at regular street speeds or better." This may be true in some cars but I would bet you straight up CASH that you couldn't do it my Z. I'd bet my new T2 that you couldn't cruise from my house to local petstore and parallel park that thing with just ONE HAND. Now, the non-PS RX-7 may be different. I've never driven one. I was stating my experiences with my 280Z. Anyway, just explaining my part of it. No hard feelings (the capitalized words were for emphasis because I'm annoyed with the way you bold things on forums). Anyway, yeah my thing is autocross Which is funny because people keep mentioning that it's better to not have PS because you get a better "feel for the road" which, if I'm not mistaken, isn't really necessary in city driving at "regular speeds"

RETed

Hey BD,

Most driving schools and books will tell you you shouldn't be shifting in the middle of a turn.

My take on this whole thread...stock FC wheel wells don't allow for anything over 225 wide tires up front.&nbsp I find the non-PS no problem for 225 wide front tires.&nbsp If you're running anything wider or race rubber, PS would probably help you.&nbsp I do not like the stock PS on the RX-7's period - it makes the steering too vague for anything short of serious driving, even on the street.



-Ted

fast13b

Once again I'm not knockin you, just making a statement. With that said, I have done a lot of autocross here and have actually spoken with a few of the national champ level drivers about PS vs. no PS. They all have told me PS definitley for autoX, and I have to agree, after racing my GTU in all three variations. I absolutely agree with you that no PS gives you a far superior feel for the road. Feel or no feel though, in my experience no PS means slower times around the cones.

~Jeremy

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Its so easy to turn with no p/s, i went from drivngf an 89accord with ps to the rx7 w/o and i didnt notice, come to find out i had no ps

BlackDragon

But you have to turn the wheel further I don't wanna deal with that personally. I want my turns to be easy and quick to execute.

Killa7

OHHHH you guys are whinners :P Try driving a 4 wheel drive with 33" tires and no power steering. Lets just say my left arm is always much more muscular than my right (since i drive with my left hand and im left handed). All it takes is time to get used to it. They were harder than heck to turn when i first started driving, i had to use two hands and TUG and lean over to turn lol. I think its a privilage to have it on my Mitsubishi Eclipse and Rx-7. I would say it wont make much of a difference in speed and acceleration, so just keep the PS. It's up to you though. Just my two cents!

Bryan

P.S. You would be amazed to see this but my 4x4 is a Suzuki Samurai ohhh i know ill hear (like i've heard since i fixed it up) that it will roll over. Never rolled it over once. Gotta love any Japanese vehicle.

NOTA V6

I'm with Ted on this one.

Original post is not about a Z.
"Hey, guys. I've never had the chance to drive a car with no power steering. I'd like your opinions on this subject, because I'm planning on buying an RX-7 at the end of summer. Give me pros and cons, and be specific!"

And "can be" one armed, and "should be" one armed are two different things. Both hands should be on the wheel except to shift. Braking and shifting should be done before a turn, not in it.

Quit trying to be ridiculous. What would the purpose of such a feat be?

Oh well. The bold is there for the purpose of emphasizing. I get annoyed with CAPS BECAUSE IT IS YELLING!

Again I remind you we are talking RX-7s here, not Zs.

Nonsense. Unless you don't like to feel the road, it is always better to get as much feedback from the road as possible. Autocross is what percentage of the average enthusiasts driving?

Can I be done now?

BlackDragon

A comment on losing weight from removing the PS:

Why not just lose another on of those beer rolls you've got tucked around your waste. It'll improve your health, your physique, AND increase your 1/4mile time (mildly to extensively depending on how much you lose ) I'll bet that if I raced some of you guys' cars in place of you I could drop your 1/4 mile time more than you'd like to know (I weigh about 140)

P.S. This isn't directed at anyone and is meant for humorous postulation only. No direct attacks against the author of this document are to be undertaken and all criticizems are to be taken up with the authors publishing body at shutthehellupandtakeitlikeaman@bspublishing.com

hehehe, it's late, I'm bored, good ol' forum keeps me warm. *embraces monitor radiation*

NOTA V6

I understand that, but...

1) Autocross is the bottom end of motorsports. No offense meant. It's fun, and very entertaining to watch IMO, but notice the lack of televised following or major sponsorship deals until you get to the top levels? I plan on doing it myself, but have no intention of being competitive at it because I would have to mod my car withing their class regulations to do so, and 99% of my driving is not autocross. Which leads me to:

2) The average enthusiast spends how much time a) autocrossing vs. b) driving on every day roads with spirit? The original poster mentions nothing of autocross.

3) In any other kind of racing where the next corner isn't 20' away, manual steering would not be an issue. In fact, the feedback would be desireable.

NOTA V6

I'll dig back a page to emphasize my point... again. I'll cut and paste it here. It's a long article.

[quote]As we noted last month, the only options selected for the car included Mazda's power-assisted steering and anti-lock brake system (ABS). The power assisted steering was selected because it features a 15.2:1 steering ratio (compared to the standard of 20.3:1) and 2.7 turns lock-to-lock (compared to the standard of 3.6 turns). This will make it easier to negotiate quick changes in direction that could sometimes be too much for the older model's steering.

Unfortunately, the required steering effort with the new power steering is too light; this means that it takes a driver some time to get used to the subtleties of steering feel and tire feedback.[quote]
'nuff said.

NOTA V6

Now this I agree with. Chesseburger reduction plan is a solid way to lose weight in addition to removeing PS form a 3k lb. car. (note: not just removing the belt.)

BlackDragon

Sometimes you go into a turn you've never taken before and guess what, its sharper than you though. Thus you slow down more, and will probably have to downshift to compensate.

I don't care if the original post isn't about a Z. I explained that I don't have an RX-7 (yet) and thus have NO experience with driving one. Yet I thought my experiences with other cars might be useful especially since he mentions he's never driven a car with no PS.

So when you're driving and you want to take a sip of your drink but you cant because you might have to actually move the wheel....you just shrug and deal with it? I'd prefer PS....

To give you a real world situation that I deal with on a weekly basis.

I get annoyed with having to hit the damned B button up there everytime I want to bold something.

Again I remind you that the Z is where my experiences is, and where I'm getting my info. May I remind you that he has never driven any car with no PS.

Well who's to say that our boy asking the question doesn't care about road feedback. If he's not going to use the performance aspects of it, why not desire a better ride from the car. That being one where he doesn't have that annoying road feedback. I'll tell you what, driving across several states in a few days is MUCH nicer when you don't have to feel the road at all. So as I was saying, you don't need to feel the road for city/transamerican driving. Sure maybe it's nice to "feel the road" but do you need it? Surely not....

Certainly not, there's still this dead horse to beat on!

BlackDragon

Just a quick side note:

No offense meant, just responding with a few jabs and feints to defend my side of the argument. I love debating so I'm sure we could go on for days. It's all friendly fun

BlackDragon

Well duh, removing the belt allows the newly exposed abdomen to flare out, making the problem obvious and easy to diagnose but in no way solving the problem

NOTA V6

NOTA V6

It's all in fun man. It's a Forum. If anyone gets pissed they can unsub the thread.

That being said, I like to argue dead points too, so...
<piano player closes piano key lid, and slips quietly away, bar dwellers take cover> Let it fly man. All others who don't like dead horses may leave now while you still have some sanity.

Hey! You used bold type!

NOTA V6

That's over driving a) your skills, b) your car or c) an unfamiliar course. Done on the track it can be recovered and learned from. Done on the road (which I will assume the original post is talking about since it makes no mention of track events of any kind) it can lead to injury, wrecked cars or property, and death. I suggest staying within the limits of your skills, the car and the road you are traveling.


Then you are stating opinion. Cool. Try to make sure it an opinion that is asked for in someone else's thread. That being said, let's hijack the tread for our own egotistical senseless arguement.


Yep. It's called driving. If I wanted to drink, I could a) stop and get something or b) wait until I am not in the middle of a turn that requires both hands because I am driving fast enough to kill people while sipping my tasty beverage, or c) not drink in the car except on road trips which are mostly on interstate highway and fall under the possibility of the "one arm driving" rule above. I choose C.

See my posts on the cupholder thread on the RX-8 Forum: http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25 (scan the post for my avatar to skip the "I need a cup holder in the RX-8" whining).

NOTA V6

Whine, whine, whine.

I have driven my car to FL form MN a couple times, and my previous RX-7s (all with no PS 'cause it's for old men and sissies, or people with cars heavier than mine ) have been to Chicago and back, Cali and back, and New York and back. Not a single arm cramp in the bunch. Although I did get a terrible back kink for a couple years from diving a Celica with PS to Cali once. Probably more related to sitting position than anything else though.

You need a Cadillac or a Buick. Why drive a sports car across 5 states if you don't like the way a sports car feels? If the original poster is asking about no PS for comfort, he should go car shopping for a tank with you.

You have the stick. Beat away!

jarrod

I removed power steering and DAMN proud of it.
I cannot understand why mazda even put it in a 7....

Jerk_Racer

I just removed the belt on mine (haven't done it right yet, I know). This is with 225 wide A032R's up front (very sticky tires y'all know) with a 320mm steering wheel (so I can drive hand-cuffed - don't judge me). How could I make it more difficult I ask you? I can't think of a way short of autocrossing with "The Club" attached to my tiller. You know what? It's not that bad!
This is all true if you can get past my feeble attempts at humor. I'm not a big, strong dude by any means but I can without issue, parallel park my car with relative ease. At first it was tough to do, but after a while I got used to it. Now when I hop into a car with P/S I accidentally overcompensate the steering not expecting it to move so easily. But I love it all the same. To each their own, even the pussbags.

Felix Wankel

The power assist is speed sensitive, so if you remove the pump, all you are doing is losing the low speed assist. It feels exactly the same (if functioning properly) at 30+ as it does with no PS pump.

NOTA V6

... unless it's malfunctioning. I had a 626 5 door turbo that had speed sensitive power assist. Only it was engine speed sensitive, and was backwards. Yep, the more you gave it revs the looser the steering got, the lower the revs the tighter the wheel became. Go figure.

One more thing to break...