yagie

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but seeing as this isn't platform specific or generation specific I thought this was the best spot for it. If not let me know and I can remove it and recreate it somewhere else.

So, as many of you know the rotaries have a problem with heat. IATs get high rather quickly, coolant temps raise, and problems follow. There are a few good methods I've seen of fixing this on all RX7/rotary platforms including the SBG electric waterpump, v-mounts, water/meth injection, and many more. One I haven't seen that I noticed is gaining a lot of traction on some of the other forums I'm on, most notably the LS based forums, is the Forced Induction Interchiller setups. For those who haven't seen them they can be found here.

Basically what the setup does is taps into your AC lines, runs a 2-channel intercooler and runs both intercooler fluid(for water to air intercoolers) and AC gases. This supercools your intercooler fluids to extremely cold temps. I've seen some readings go subzero which is insane to me, but average IATs end up being below 60F most of the time at cruising speeds and below 120 when pushed, even for long periods of time in track and drag conditions. I've seen CTS-V's, Corvettes, SS Sedans, ZL1's, LS swaps, and non LS setups. They seem like they can be made to work with a rotary setup as well with minor fabrication and it seems like an awesome option for keeping temps under control. I believe they even make an option to cool oil temps too, but need to do more research on that avenue.

My question is has anyone done this on a rotary yet? It's a fairly simple process by the look of it and seems to have almost no downside. The AC seems to retain great functionality with some showing AC temps lower than what they were previously without running an interchiller setup. Also, for those who haven't seen it, the upcoming Dodge Challenger Demon is said to be coming with a similar option as well. So if Dodge is willing to vouch for it, I don't see why it's not worth a shot on our platforms.

FI Interchillers has 2 basic packages by the look of it. One with just the interchiller and lines needed. Another with an additional reservoir.
Basic package:


Additional Reservoir package:


Below are some pictures of results and differences between ambient temperature and intake temperature that I thought would be useful for everyone.

Top temp is ambient temp. Bottom is intake. This is from a ZL1.


Temp reading of the supercharger on the same ZL1 using another method. Not taken at the same time as the above temps from my understanding.


Temp difference from an HSV GTS. Left time is ambient, right is intake.


Sorry if some of the images came in too big. Not sure how to adjust image size in html code. But as you can see there is a dramatic difference, and judging by the look of the kits, I don't think it would be too difficult to get a mount setup fabricated and run the lines as necessary.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

funny how i had this idea, oh, about 12 years ago.

i ruled it out, mostly because the a/c generates as much or more heat than you are dropping in the intake in some way shape or form for the engine. it also is not sustainable, running the a/c on the track for example will cost more power than you will gain from the lowered intake temps all while you fight water temps.

all in all, it is a good idea for cooling the intake charge after a run but not during and for track duty it is useless.

so avoid the bias and look past all that. i have no experience with this kit but i have just told you my reasons why i chose not to follow through with any form of R+D, or subsequent lies in the form of only showing you the benefits and not drawbacks in order to sell shitty worthless products.

why companies like this exist still blows me away, when honest businesses struggle.

yagie

Did I forget to mention the have options to add on heat exchangers to help keep oil temps down as well? I believe if you're keeping your oil temps down, and your IATs are in the 30-60 degree range consistently that would mean the engine would consequentially run much cooler as well. Lower IATs and oil temp result in lower engine heat. Higher IATs and oil temp result in higher engine heat. At least from my understanding of heat transfer.

As far as keeping times low during a run, almost everyone I see says it keeps IATs at least 75 degrees lower after hard runs and is very consistent. There are also a ton of Dyno's showing that power has actually been gained while running the FI interchiller setups. Below I've included a video that shows a power gain of 77hp and 50ftlb on an LS platform by running the setup. So I believe that more than offsets the power lost by running the AC.

Just to be sure though I actually just emailed the company to get a verified response from them with their input on whether they have results of running it for long periods of time and how well it holds up to track setups. I have seen their universal kit has been used on MR2's, BRZ/FR-S's, and other platforms. I just haven't seen it on a rotary yet.

Also, while I appreciate your feedback and it has brought up some good points that I plan on researching further, I don't think it's fair to slander a company that you have no interactions with and imply they aren't an honest company. From all the feeback I've seen with them on other forums they seem to be a very honest company only interested in supplying a proven product that does what it says it does. They respond to questions asked in a polite and timely manner. And as far as I've seen there is ZERO negative feedback on them or their product in the many other forums I've used to research them.



Let's make that 2 videos. Different cars. Independent testing. Not sponsored by the company that produced the product.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

dude, all you're doing is ignoring what i said....

if you want it, go for it. all i am saying is it is only semi useful in drag racing setups and even then merely for onscreen numbers. dyno videos? get the hell out! no way! oh by the way, were they actually running the a/c at the time? 77hp improvement with the a/c running?

here is the best icon i can find for where this is heading, and you have a fistful of tickets...





keep this up and i will wonder why i ever bothered being honest, because if you could see me, i am shaking my head at you.

it's not totally worthless, but it does have a lot of small print that you should read, mostly about how pigeonholed the benefits are. but if you're just going to copy and paste videos or self testimonies, i'm either going to give the mic to you to preach as i walk away or continue calling BS.

you know there is a cheaper alternative too, with even better results? it's called nitrous, except you can use it without the downsides, but you also need to know how to properly set it up and be tuned for it.

i know it's not easy being called out when you think you found something good out there, but i'm telling you, you are wasting your breath with this one and i hope you didn't buy into it. i mean hell, at one time i thought it was a good idea too, however the more i thought about it, it just had more feasable cons than pros.




even if the a/c was off, a 77horsepower improvement for the intake charge drop merely by temperature difference is not possible, so yes, i am trying to protect you against bullshit hype, not slander. if it is a force inducted car, then there was likely a boost increase which is where the power came from.

i don't really care if you believe it, but i am posting for other's knowledge of why this isn't what they make it seem.

yagie

I'm not ignoring what you said at all man. I even said I emailed the company specifically asking about things you brought up. I've researched it in depth. I haven't run it, bought it, or said its the greatest thing on the planet. I just have yet to see it mentioned on this forum. I'm on probably 20+ other forums and have seen it brought up on many of those. Almost ALL feedback I've seen from people say it has noticeable power gains among a slew of other benefits. So in my eyes as an unbiased spectator if someone says something works, shows it works, and shows that it holds up then it looks like it has at least some small possibility of being a good product.

I don't have a RX7 yet, although it is going to be my next purchase. I've been a spectator on this forum for years and take the time to research things before making decisions which is part of the reason why my post count is low. Why clutter a forum with questions that have already been answered right. There's a ton of information here and I've been a large consumer of it for the better part of 5+ years. I'm just bringing something to the mercy of the forum that I have yet to see discussed and asking for opinions. If you watch the video it shows that they are running their AC while still getting power gains. They show the difference in power between not running the AC and Interchiller versus running it. I'm not affiliated with the company. I don't get anything from me speaking on their product. I just like to sort out the truth behind products and understand ALL the options on the table to include their benefits and drawbacks.

I understand the skepticism, and I appreciate it. But honestly all I seem to be getting from you is outright hostility about a product you also haven't used and have no experience with while I'm simply keeping an open mind and simply stating, "Hey guys, this is kinda cool. I wonder if there's any merit to using it on our platform since so many others seem to be saying how great it is on theirs."

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i would be willing to bet that in most cases where power improvements were measured they were in force inducted cars and without proper boost controls that offset the raised pressure from the colder IAT.

i've seen this sort of marketed on several types of products, like a downpipe that claims a 60 horsepower improvement, when the downpipe merely allowed the turbo to breathe better and raise boost pressure which generated those 60 horsepower. it was always there, if you knew how to actually touch it.

yagie

That makes sense and I could see that being what's happening. I'm not sure what else went into getting the numbers they did. But the videos make it SEEM like all they did was turn on the interchiller setup, which from my understanding of the product is done by turning on the AC. Like I said I don't have any firsthand experience with the product. It just looks pretty interesting to me.

The other thing that I'm keeping in mind is the videos above weren't filmed by the company but they are shared by the company. They were filmed by a shop that installed the product and tested it. So as long as they're not getting anything from the company for their marketing of the product I would think that the testimony has some merit.

yagie

I've done some more research on other forums and have yet to find testimony on how it works on a track setup. From most of the comments I see it works great as a reliability mod in that it keeps the engine cool on very hot days for cars that are DDs. Stuck in traffic on a hot summer day and heatsoak setting in due to no air flow would be solved with this. I've also seen that it cools the engines back down extremely fast.

Like you said almost all cases I've seen it reviewed in are on drag setups. People are stating that when they're in a drag race from the time they do their warmup burnout to the 45-60 seconds it takes to get staged the temps have dropped back down to 30-60 degree IATs from 100 degrees they were at post burnout. This would otherwise not have happened since the ambient temps their stating were 95+ in most cases. There may not be any use for it on a circuit setup, but there may be. I don't think it would prove to be too useful in a circuit setup either, but I know there are still a lot of drag ready rotaries out there too and they could benefit from something like this if they don't want to run NOS. So that makes it useful for the forum in my eyes.

TRRAPLN

Challenger Demon air conditioner charge cooling for supercharger intercooler

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Yes, these systems will have some positive effects in drag racing.

Stock production vehicles have used this AC chilled intercooler design before.

If you don't want to go to all the cost and effort of this system and you have a water to air IC (not too common for rotaries)...

you can also just bring a cooler full of ice to the drags and toss some in your IC reservoir tank before your burn out.

That way you can ditch your AC for 40lbs weight savings and still have the same effect of starting the race with chilled coolant.

--------

As pointed out, the automotive AC system is not large enough to have much effect on the IC coolant temps once the turbo is adding its heat load, but it can chill the coolant ahead of time to help with the initial boost event.

If you want to beef up your AC to the point where it can have an effect you would likely gain as much benefit by simply increasing your coolant capacity by the same weight as the AC parts.

For anything but drag racing or street driving, water to air IC is just too heavy, complex and inefficient.

There is a near infinite amount of air available to cool an IC so the fluid transfer medium doesn't heat soak like the coolant in water to air IC and lower efficiency.

If you are interested in other ways you can temporarily draw down the temperature of a water to air IC you can look into dry ice, Peltier coolers and compressed air and compressed air Ranque-Hilsche vortex tubes.

Don't get me wrong, when I looked into this I really wanted it to work well because I was looking for an excuse to keep the comfort of AC in my race car and to play with a laminar flow IC intake design I had in mind.

But between the draw backs of water to air IC in anything but drag racing or street driving, the extra weight, complexity and cost it was just a bad idea for me.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

course grabbing a 5 gallon sprayer of warm water and a portable fan will do the same thing, also without the weight cost.

some people just like gimmicks, so they can impress their friends. i have plenty of tweaks you can use on a dyno, but they are impractical to actually run on the car.

water injection still far surpasses anything this whole system can do.