junito1

The engine is has about 5-7000k miles on her. She still runs strong and doesn't smoke and pulls good vac at idle. I have ran klotz benol since rebuild and that current thread on castor oil for premix brought me some curiosity. They engine hasn't seen much abuse and is still at 7psi. Most abuse she's had was when she got tuned last year on the dyno. I have done several street races from 2nd gear to 4th. But those were short sprints. I mainly baby it around and I always use 1oz per gal premix even if I'm cruising all day.

My twistedrotors compression tester arrived last Friday. Sunday I did the compression test after taking her for a nice ride. The front rotor is solid and even, but the rear rotor read 119 106 119. Side seal..... 2 high 1 low...

I was planning to turn the boost to 13-15 psi in January. What do you guys think. Is she hurt or dies she just need to be abused a bit to see if she frees up that seal - maybe I'm just worried for no reason. Doesn't the fsm allowed up 20psi diff per rotor face?

lastphaseofthis

iTrader: (8)

106 psi isnt low enough to cause it to misfire, but tells you something is up, i would personally keep running it expecting it to keep loosing more and more( somethings gotta be wrong-right?) but if it doesnt drop, then your fine, you just scratched it with some intake debri, and it may come up some with some time.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

You know its a side seal because it is only affecting one rotor face.

Since the side of the rotor gets hosed down by the injectors and you are running a premix that is known to gum everything up- there is a good chance it is a gummy sides seal not popping all the way out on the corner seal end with the weak spring tension.

Run Lucas injector cleaner & top end lubricant as premix instead for a while and see if it clears up the compression #s.

It could be a crazy large side seal end gap, but its not a totally stuck side seal as that usually nets you compression in the 70s.

Also, I have had broken corner seals where one half is working and the other stuck in the rotor return bad compression #s on one rotor face too, but it is more rare than side seal troubles.

junito1

Thanks for the replies.
BlueTII, just to be sure, replace my 2 cycle premix for Lucas injector cleaner entirely? Or still use some premix at a low mix?

I have been keeping track of the benol thread and I'm already looking at some of replacements they are suggesting.

I think I will run a few gallons thru her with injector cleaner this weekend. Afterwards, with new premix lube and fuel, I will go give her a few hard pulls.

I think I will keep driving her but keeping a closer eye on compression- if it gets worse in the next few months and after the tune. I will pull her out and have her inspected.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

He's saying to run the injector cleaner in addition to regular premix, NOT as a substitute for the premix.


Are you running E-85 for your fuel??

I would run a full tank, not just a couple gallons.

Also, I would stop using that benol stuff completely, especially if it is known to cause gummy deposits.


Have you tried doing a steam clean proceedure like the one I'm linking below?

Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.

junito1

I did plan on using e85, but its over kill for my 15psi goal. So no not any more. I just had a gallon of benol and I figured I would use it since I had already purchased it. I do plan on bying new non benol 2cycle lube.

I have not tried that steam trick but I will try. Seems easier on 3rd gens since hey have a nipple per runner on upper plenum. My s5 only has nipple for rear rotor only. Which I the one I need steamed.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

He's saying to run the injector cleaner in addition to regular premix, NOT as a substitute for the premix.


Actually, I have used just Lucas Injector Cleaner & Top End Lubricant as premix and it works well. I do however use the factory OMP too- it helps keep the oil level from increasing between oil changes.

I am sure the Lucas would be a good premix without OMP. You aren't going to put any wear on the engine going through a tank or ten of gas without the OMP unless you are on the edge racing it.

You can look at street driven engines that have had disconnected/failed OMP for tens of thousands of miles and the wear is maybe worse than expected, but perhaps not. Not at all like looking at a motor that lived at redline with "proper" care where its worn all wonky.

For regular premix (which I also used with OMP) my favorite has been Mercury Quicksilver.
I mixed it as much as 50:1 when I was running RA apex seals and the engine was amazingly clean on the inside- only the upper two corners of my exhaust ports would have a touch of carbon build up. And it doesn't smoke (hand in hand with no carbon deposits) except at first start when the car has sat for a while.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Yeah man... I'd offer the benol to somebody running e85 at a discounted price

If you're running regular pump gas I'd look into the West Marine brand (Silverline) premix. I figure you should have plenty of West Marines around you because of Florida

I've been using that brand for a long while now and it's damned good stuff. Depending on what type of seals you're using I'd even consider going 2oz/gal (provided your ignition is on point).

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

I would be REALLY leery about running without premix or an OMP...

Crap! You're totally right!! It was the Mercury Marine Quicksilver brand that I've used... Been a while since I bought it since my motor died due to spun bearings/oil starvation

Here is the stuff I use: MERCURY MARINE Premium Plus 2-Cycle TC-W3 Outboard Oil | West Marine

junito1

Doesnt hurt to plan for the worse. What would you guys do in my situation if the compression doesn't return and I'm still looking at 14+ psi different on that rotor face. Would you keep running it till it really gets worse or would you just pull the engine and have the back iron removed to inspect and possibly fix rear the rotor issue.

Anywho, I do plan on making a good effort attempting to loosen that side seal. I purchased a quart of some Lucas racing 2 cycle as it was easy to get. I bought a 32oz of Lucas upper cyl lube and injector cleaner. I will continue to premix 1/2oz Lucas per gal and 1oz of upper cyl lubricant and keep and eye on compression. I might steam it today. I will post updates occasionally.

junito1

Make that 2oz. Of upper cyl lube and injector cleaner for ever 5gals of gas.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I would try to get compression to pop back up before resorting to a rebuild.

On broken side seals/corner seals the worst you are going to usually get from running it is wear on the side housings.

Only once have I had broken corner seals dig into the port and ruin the iron and that was all 3 broken on that rotor side.

cr7684

iTrader: (42)

Are you getting blow by or poor idle? you said your vac is good at idle, can you port numbers? What apex seals & size? IMO I don't think it's a side seal IF you don't have blow by, poor idle/vac.

I am not trying to step on any ones toes nor I am saying I am 100% correct, it's just a side or corner seal will have a noticeable affect on the things listed above.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

it's just a side or corner seal will have a noticeable affect on the things listed above.

Well, my FD currently has 1 knackered side seal from over rev and it starts, drives, idles fine, but you can hear 1 bad pulse out of 6 when cranking and the engine is a little lazier.

Also, OP stated-
The front rotor is solid and even, but the rear rotor read 119 106 119

106 is not even a side seal fully stuck in the groove- that usually reads 70psi in my experience.

This is why I have hope that a side seal is just gummed up with Benol and will pop out with some injector cleaner.

Any update?

cr7684

iTrader: (42)

Well, my FD currently has 1 knackered side seal from over rev and it starts, drives, idles fine, but you can hear 1 bad pulse out of 6 when cranking and the engine is a little lazier.

Also, OP stated-
The front rotor is solid and even, but the rear rotor read 119 106 119

106 is not even a side seal fully stuck in the groove- that usually reads 70psi in my experience.

This is why I have hope that a side seal is just gummed up with Benol and will pop out with some injector cleaner.

Any update?[/QUOTE]


As I said I wasn't trying to step on any ones toes, I read his post & I still feel it's not a side seal. A failed side seal has greater affects over a failed corner seal, when looking at area of sealing/contact. I am in no way challenging you but giving my experienced input to help the OP.

To the OP did you install new side seals & if did you cut down to get the correct clearance? It may be a corner seal pinched by a side seal??? Please keep in mind I'm trying to help guys not fight happy New Years.

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

Nothing wrong- not that much of a difference- anything over 100psi is great. If engine is running good let it be

junito1

No update as I haven't checked the compression. The car used to idle a lot and barely get any WOT. I have let her idle for 30 miNs before at 12.0 AFR w/ 1 oz. Of benol per gal or gas. On top of that, I would seriosly drive over 30min at a time,to and from places, in grandma mode.(no boost).

I did not build my engine so I have no idea how it was clearanced, but I can say it has goopy 2mm apex seals and new corner seals.

I haven't driven her much since this thread was started but I'm still mixing .5oz of Lucas premix and 2-3 oz per 5 gals of Lucas upper cyl and cleaner.btw I see why BlueTII says it could be used as premix for short time. The Lucas upper cylubricant and cleaner is very oily and a bit thick. Also, no more Mr nice guy. Last few times I drive her a bit more spiritedly . A few on ramps made some fun short sprints. So hopefully the weather stays nice so I can keep abusing her a bit to see if she will regain compression or not.

junito1

Vacuum readings.

Greddy bspecII Boost controller: fans on -86/fans off -90

ReAmemiya boost gauge is about 470-480mm/hg. This is what it has always been the whole lifetime+ or - a few depending on day and idle rpm(no idle control valve)

About to go do a compression test. Keep in mind I haven't driven much since beginning of thread and probably ran 12 gallons thru her with about 8-10 pulls of rolling second and topping 3rd gear at 7200rpms shifts. A couple were 1-3rd with a dab of 4th gear. Running 10.6 afr with about 10.8 at 7k. Rpms. @7psi still. She pulls smoothly.

junito1

Rpm 273
125 109 125

Rpm 264
122 105 123

Rpm 256
103 121 119

junito1

I'll be the first to say it. It appears to be gettig worse, I've gained a larger difference between the facees of the rear rotor.
She idles fine and holds good vac. I'll I stall my mechanical, more common, boost gauge. Should be near 18hg vac. My old fresh jpec made about 19.

So.... what would you fellas due at this point.

Best possible scenario would be a stuck side seal or partly damaged corner seal or both. If this is the case could I just have a builder tend to the rear rotor without disassembling the entire motor? Reuse most seals after careful inspection.?

What would I be looking at in worse case scenario? Lapping some irons?

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I say-
Enjoy your car and forget about it.

Learn to build motors or buy a used OEM one for the next motor.

lOOkatme

iTrader: (19)

What about doing a water injection treatment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6j76s-LJNA

junito1

Crossed my mind. But I couldn't find an appropriate nipple. S5 jdm engine and intake manifolds/Plenum.

I did take the intercooler piping off the greddy throttlebody elbow and filled a 32oz. Hair stylist, fine mist spray , bottle and sprayed the bottle.nearly.empty into the greet elbow while holding around 3k rpms. It wanted to stall I kept on. It would say its a less aggressive method to the 1gallon per nipple. And letting the engine suck up that much at a time.

junito1

So compression never got better but stayed the same. This last weekend I went to the dyno to tune for 15 psi on 93. Everything was going perfect till we got to 14psi. The car was making its 14psi pull and the car started to pulse a bit and then sputtered a bit and we quickly let off. Looking at dyno data The afrs had gone rich and power dropped where it got rich at around 5,500-6k rpms. And on down rev to let it idle it turned off. It wouldn't turn on. My twistedrotors compression tester happen to not work.grrr. so I used a regular tester and was getting 55total front and 60total rear.

My tuner who is very experienced and reputable (no need for names) thinks the egt's got hot due to my 7" runner turbo manifold creating to much back pressure. He said to let it could down and try to start it. After cool down and atf trick. She started. Had to raise idle screw and idle sounds a bit off but I drove her home and she drove normally except for the idle.

I suspect warped apex seals. My engine is pinned with goopy seals. Turbo setup is 2"ID 7" short runner manifold fully divided with twin comp40 wg's pushing a BW S360 w/ 1.0 are turbine housing. 15psi should be a joke for my engine why am I having such a hard time making power. I was also a bit annoyed to find my ID 1000x2 and 2000ccx2 with aeromotive 340 in tank was at 82%duty cycle at 14psi. All in all **** weekend.

Does anyone have any idea or opinions on what went wrong.

PS. I will try the twisted rotors compression tester later this week and will post results.

junito1

This is the run it happened on.