Paulc19

I want to start by saying this: I have ALWAYS wanted an FD (BiG sUrPrIsE!) but could never afford one. Back when I got my FC when I was in high school you could still get a 3rd gen for under 20k reliably but with the way prices are going they seem to constantly outrun my paychecks (TLDR: I don't like loans).
Here is where the post begins; I brought this up to a good friend of mine and his response was really interesting:
"When you drive your car, do you still feel the need to own a FD?"
To be honest not really, but I've never driven a 3rd gen and have always wanted my FC to have things like more power, better handling, sharper cornering response, etc. All of which I could get in a 3rd gen. In the 5 years I've owned my S4 GXL I have gotten it swapped with a turbo 2 drivetrain so at least I don't have the low-power NA anymore.

My question now is: IS IT REALLY WORTH IT? I know the FD is better but how MUCH better? Would you be able to create a setup with the FC that's at least on par with your average modded/tuned FD or it just not worth it because of the performance gap?

I'm planning for the future here. I have always loved the look of the FD over the FC but when your in the car driving, none of that matters to me. What matters is how it handles and I want to know if I should put more money into my FC setup or if I should quit while I'm ahead and save for an FD.

I doubt I will ever sell my 2nd gen, it IS the FIRST car I've ever owned and am really attached to it. have also heard many stories of people selling their rx7's then regretting it afterwards and I refuse to fall into that category. let me know what you think.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Rx-8

Paulc19

lol wat?
I think I get what your saying if that wasn't sarcasm. I've never driven an rx8 so I wouldn't know how they handle either. Only reason why I don't want to go that route is because swapping the renesis engine and the 6 speed (i've heard their fragile) out for a turbo rotary is going to be a pain in the rear. I've already done that with my fc and it took 2 years and I'm still finding small issues here and there. And that was more or less a drop in, getting a 3rd gen engine/tranny setup is going to be a lot worse I would think. not really doing that again lol

as a side note: I live in central Florida so AC is a must. will probably need to run a different setup and that's just going to cost more money which is just more reason not to go that route. Considering the amount I spent on my FC for the swap, I think that's a no-go for me.

GtiKyle

iTrader: (5)

I think people get hung up on numbers, figures and dreaming of how much "better" something is. There's a critical factor that i think a lot of people overlook. "Keeping up with the Jones'", or dick measuring, or feeling inadequate compared to X car or Y friends ride.

At the end of the day I'm not a pro racer. I don't have unlimited access to canyon roads every day to rip up. I'm not andretti, or schumacher or faust. I own what i own because of the way it makes me feel when I do get to take it out. The FB is my favorite car. It's outdated, slow, handles poorly compared to other vehicles. But man does it make me smile. That's all i care about.

Paulc19

I can understand that sentiment, its why I want to keep my 2nd gen even if I decide to go for a 3rd. But at the end of the day I cant deny what I am; a guy who drives as a past time (irl or sim). someone who, no matter how fast he goes, always wants to go just that little bit faster, take a corner a little bit tighter, brake a little bit harder, etc.
I caught the dorito bug and the speed bug at the same time and neither are letting go any time soon lol. Thats what puts a smile on my face, putting in laps or passes on a mountain road and having the confidence to go faster with each run. Not sure how to describe it, but when your on it, you know.

peejay

The FC is basically a rotary powered Z31 while the FD is a larger Miata.

Miatas are considered the best driver's vehicle ever made. Z31s are allowed to rust and die.

Paulc19

so try and save for an FD I assume.

peejay

Or get a Miata.... act fast though, nice NAs are clearing $10k nowadays. NBs are still kinda "meh" for value and NCs are unloved, but a lot of that is that neither drives as nice as an NA

WondrousBread

Like Peejay says, the FC starts at a significant deficit compared to the other options. Suspension design is part of it, I think the other part is rigidity. I don't race though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

If we're throwing practicality and cost out the window, I've always thought swapping an NC suspension would be neat. Then you can run much wider tires, Rx8 brakes, Rx8 diff, Rx8 transmission, custom PPF, etc. And keep the 5x114.3 wheel pattern. Obviously this is one of those things that is easier said than done, but one day I'd like to take some actual welding classes and get another FC shell to try it out on.

The best thing to do though IMO is just enjoy the car for what it is. It handles well and is fun to drive, which is enough for me.

Paulc19

only problem with a Miata is I cant for the life of me fit in one. sat in a brand-new ND miata (I assume its more spacious, but I could be wrong) and my knees press right up against the dash and my thighs wrap around the steering wheel. Im not fat, I am 6ft 1 at 185 and for how many tall people drive those cars I have no idea how they do it because my legs are extra-long.

Paulc19

yea money is a factor in this. why I want to see what would get me further. I doubt I'll ever build anything that will pass the 500hp mark so if I can build a chassis that can preform perfectly with that much power I'll be set. I'm starting to see though, how much worse the FC is compared to the FD.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the ND is actually one of the smaller ones. Mazda bucked the trend of making each new car bigger. in the Miata world the NC is the big one.
go drive some stuff, you might find that you like one vs the others

ive been tempted to build a Rotary NC, the Rx8 drivetrain is almost a bolt in (lot of bolts though), you'd go from ~230hp/2950lbs to 230hp/2600lbs, which would be great.
i just don't like the NC though. i want to like it, but i just don't.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

RX-8

To elaborate, I built my $1,500 TII FC in 2001 and raced it and continuiously improved it (autox, hillclimb and kart track) 2004-2014.

It culminated in 420rwhp/420ftlbs 2,500lbs and 255/40-17 DOT-R tires all around, coilovers, bushings, etc etc.

I raced My FD 2008-present. With wheels/tires/coilovers/intake/exhaust (~250rwhp) it was far faster than my FC everywhere and was easier on tires (wishbone). Part of it is you can fit 315/30-18 tires on stock rolled fenders and they still make good coilovers for it (none for FC).

I raced my RX-8 2008-2020.
It is even more superior chassis to FD. Stiffer unibody, pure suspension geometry (no toe steer), they make good coilovers for it snd it fits same tires as FD including taller tires, so its even easier.
Longer wheelbase and weight is more inboard and lower thsn FD.

Only issue with RX-8 is it needs more power- which is the easiest thing to address ehen modding.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (2)

no emissions inspection there, so an RX8 retrofitted with a single turbo REW engine and transmission is the ticket …
.

Paulc19

Been told the NC just gets a bad rap for it looking chubby. I assume its light though. might give that a try because I actually kind of like the look of the NC miata

Paulc19

Did you do this and not have to sacrifice AC? Thats the only thing that's caused a pain in the rear for me and I cannot compromise on it, the florida heat is just too much.
If I had to pick between the NC miata and the rx8 I would rather do the Rx8 just because I know I can fit and I have a set of useable back seats so its more practical on days I need to do other stuff in it.
Also want to point out that I'm not trying to build something 100% track based but I think you already know that.

Also how much did it cost you to get to that point? buying a T2 motor, I assume other drivetrain components like the tranny? ( was told the 6 speed doesn't hold power well.) All of that cost, how much would you say it would add up to? Thats the kicker for me. Also prices for turbo ANYTHING (engine, trans, etc) is getting ridiculous. I could get a t2 trans for ~400 a few years ago now I cant find any whatsoever and ones I do find are over $1k. Engines are even worse and I was lucky to snag my T2 setup (entire drive train and spare parts) for only 3k a few years ago. Never seen a bargain like that since.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

For my RX-8 I only slammed it down on some used ohlins coilovers and put the wheels/tires from my FD on.

My RX-8 was 108rwhp automatic.

I still havent beat my "spring enduro" 5 lap sprint on kart track RX-8 time with the FD despite FD boost up to ~340rwhp.

Besides the amazing handling I do also love how practical the RX-8 is as well. Easy to load, lots of interior space, 4 seats and sturdy interior.

I have heard the S1 RX-8 6 speed breaks easily, but then others have no issue using them on high hp turbo builds.

I believe the issue was loose build tolerances and people trying to "shift mad quick yo" which over extends the shift forks past the detents, breaks the fork and jams/breaks the gears.

The S2 RX-8 6 speed is a totally different transmission. It is top loader case which should be stiffer case and some say it is stronger than S1 trans.

You can always keep AC on any build.

I bought parts, but did my own fabricating, building and tuning- learning as I went.
Bought my TII FC for $1,500 as I said and initially put ~$15k of parts into the 1st build (2001 dollars).

RX-8 is affordable with lots of cheap spare parts available like the TII was back 20 years ago when I built mine.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

This is basically it. You've achieved fulfilment.

The only thing that really matter when it comes down to it is whether you love / enjoy your car. The grass is always going to look greener on the other side.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i had 3 Rx8's and i really liked them. they only have 3 real flaws.
the big one is gas mileage, its 19. you can do better if you're all freeway driving, but you're not.
second the dash is this gigantic piece of black plastic, and most of what the HVAC does is control the temp of the dash. window tint helps a lot.
and three, if you're in the back seat, which will fit a full size adult, and have to throw up, the window doesn't open, which leaves you the rotor shaped opening in the front seat..... i mean i guess that one is avoidable

me too, but from 2004-2008 the dealership i worked at only replaced 2 of them. one was really obvious abuse too. i don't doubt the race car people have problems, but weirdly on the street they are fine
in general that was the thing with the Rx8, it had a bad reputation, so its cheap, but the problems were kind of overblown, or at least easy to avoid the pitfalls

like i say i had 3 of them, and i bought the cheapest broken ones i could find, and still the biggest job i had to do was a either the clutch or the radiator

Paulc19

Damn.. been also thinking of just getting an rx8 to put around in because im a MASSIVE rotor head. Your starting to convince me to do just that 0.o

Paulc19

Im going to take a gander and say the s2 tranny would probably be the harder of the 2 to find though. I do want a 6 speed, my FC will top 5th gear if I keep my foot to the floor so I'd imagine having more horses wouldn't matter in terms of top speed because of my trans (I have an S4 trans with S5 engine and turbo)

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Well, highway pulls is really where the FC shines.

Compared to both the FD and RX-8 the FC has lower coeficient of drag, less lift and flat sides so it stays on the ground when it gets sideways at speed. Additionally the full frame doors keep the wind noise down.

Before I started racing all I did was highway pulls in the name of tuning xD. Top of 5th comes fast in a tuned TII. I later put in shortest JDM 5th and it pulled even better in 5th.

I didnt mind topping out at "only 170mph instead of 180. Its all too fast to be going really. Glad Im alive.
Plus I had started racing and its nice to have a gear after 4th on some courses, but rare to find a 3/4 or 1 mile straight where you will hit 180.

Paulc19

Aaaand you just convinced me to keep my FC (if this is true). Have a buddy with a midnight purple s14. every month we go to an oval track about an hour away from where we live to watch people drift, then on the way back we would go flat out because the freeways were mostly clear. Only issue with my setup is even with the stock s5 turbo I can redline 5th gear with no issues and only get arround 140-150mph lol. Havent done it in a while though. Maybe I should invest in a s5 tranny or 5th gear assembly if that's even possible in the far future.
either way, good to know.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

since we are talking about it, here is a review of the NC Mx5 by someone who likes it,

he is right too, its not a bad car, its just that the NA and ND are better. people really like the NB, but its like a check engine light on wheels, lol

just really quickly, since there are some differences between the UK and the US NC's here is a quick buyers guide.
NC1 is 2006-2008
its on a shortened Rx8 chassis, with the original style bumpers (more round)
in the US was only got the 2 Liter 174hp engine. we had a choice of the 5 speed, or the 6 speed. the 5 speed is the same one that is in the NA/NB's and so its the same M Box design that the non turbo Rx7's used
the 6 speed, P Type, is similar to the later Rx8 trans, and its distantly related to the 5 speed from the Ford Ranger/B series truck.

2009-2015 brings us the NC2
the big change is the front bumper, and then it gets revised again in 2012
the other change is that the manual trans cars get forged crank/rods/pistons and a higher redline, although same hp rating
they also redid the suspension, the early cars have a thing where the rear shocks top out, which makes it do this weird roll oversteer crabwalk thing. its an odd problem as the Rx8 is just way better

the cool thing about the NC is that since its on the Rx8 chassis you have a good source for bigger brakes and stuff. then since the engine is a Ford, you can borrow the 2.5 Liter short block from your grandma's Fusion, and or turbo it. its 5 lug, so your FC wheels fit, although the NC can fit like 18x10 wheels or something crazy
basically if you want to go crazy with mods, or play golf the NC is the best Miata.

peejay

NDs are crazy cramped.

NAs... I am 6'4ish, 200-220lb, I can fit in an NA with helmet on with great ease