seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

I did file the rotor tips, I didn't take off alot of material but they were filed. Never shaved the sides but I did smooth/round off the edges slightly(parallel to the side seals). I can't remember what the rotor running clearance was, but it was loose, out of mazdas spec.

I think I over ported the side ports. The side seals are eating grooves into the side plates. I had these lapped and after a about 3,000 miles they have noticable wear. I never had this problem until I went aggresive on the intakes. Next time they are staying very close to stock.

I haven't shaved the sides of the rotor. Just curious where you shave.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

just narrowing down the rotor width, leaving the rotor oil seal area alone.

if you get a bit aggressive with the intake ports go over the outside edges and bevel them slightly, so the side seals won't try to drop into the intake and jam up.

sleeper7

To be honest I have very little time working around the rotary motor and have very little experience.

BUT. and you know there is always a butt in the room.
High rpm under load, 2mm seals and a little vibration caused the rotor to hit the housing. If you had 3mm seals the problem would not happen. You can get the rotating assembly balanced with 2mm seals but that is no guarantee it will prevent it from happening again. There is a fix for this and you guys spoke of it. Just did not do it enough. just my to yen.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

rev and boost custs usually cause the rotor to housing collisions. detonation will also, when the engine is twisting against the dowels. engine balance in these engines is not as critical as i hear many people claim.

peejay

Sure, because 3mm apex seals would have blown apart before you could rev that high

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

^Agreed, goes back to the last point I was trying to make.

If your rotor is somehow contacting the rotor housing, you've got serious problems.

And I agree that balancing is not nearly as necessary as some think.

A properly clearanced and built 13B-REW making 400+ rwhp will rev to 8000 rpm all day long.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

Sleeper 7-"There is a fix for this and you guys spoke of it. Just did not do it enough."

Filing the rotor tips?

GoodFella's-"A properly clearanced and built 13B-REW making 400+ rwhp will rev to 8000 rpm all day long. "

Even with out of spec parts that most would throw in the scrap pile it was running well, until that line came off. I have my limiter at9100 rpm and generally shift around 8500. These are very capable engines. I am pretty sure the contact happened when it was spitting and sputering while keeping the throttle pinned.

Karack- I will bevel these edges, I had some time to look over the irons and can see where the side seals are hitting the intake ports.

I started re-working the housings as well and they aren't as bad as I originally thought. Going to give them another run.

Rotors are done, anyone reading this have a set they wana come off, let me know.

So has anyone else broken a Ra super seal??

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

and use your boost cut setting in the EMS this time.

school of hard knocks, literally.

95R_Bathurst

iTrader: (5)

RotaryEvolution, Is it possible to schedule a rebuild in January? I know you're backed up with PM's and perhaps emails from your site. I'm flying in to Vegas on the 4th of Jan and wanted to drop off my motor for a lap/rebuild/and possible street port. I fly out on 4 Feb. This way, no shipping is required if you were able to get it completed in that timeframe.
Current motor situation: blown Atkins Cryo Apex seal on front rotor. I haven't got the motor torn apart yet to see the condition of the housing. I think it tweaked the rotor as well by looking into the exhaust port at it.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Flying with a 13B-REW, now THAT is a hardcore rotary nut

If RE is too backed up and you'd rather come visit NYC instead, let me know. Be happy to help out

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i don't have anything scheduled that far in advance so it shouldn't be a problem, it may take about 3-4 days to complete and would need to know your preference on apex seals ahead of time to be sure i have everything in stock.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i've had people bring them in sitting on passenger seats before so nothing surprises me. lol

tuscanidream

iTrader: (6)

HEADLINER: Bomb threat mistakingly occurs at airport when X-ray machine finds a rotary engine in a suitcase.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

So can you carry on an engine or do you have to check that?

BTW. When sitting on the plan don't talk about your blown up luggage.

95R_Bathurst

iTrader: (5)

LMAO, you guys are too funny. I'm in the military and we'll be shipping a bunch of stuff to Vegas for a training exercise. I asked if they had some room in their container that I could fit my motor and they said yes, as long as it doesn't leak any fluids. I'll then drive it from the base to your shop to drop it off. Then pick it up when finished and put it back in the container until we head back to Germany.
RotaryEvolution, I have a brand new set of 2mm RA Superseals w/ racing springs that will used for the rebuild. I just request your assistance with the rest.
Thanks!

RXtacy

iTrader: (7)

That rotor looks familiar here's mine

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

I wonder if water injection and alcohol injection is playing a role in this damage to housings? If you think about it when injecting the steam clean effect is happening possibly washing down the walls allowing no lubrication to happen.

Also to think about is if a AI injection is being used then its possible that its pulling all the heat into one central spot and causing a bunch of heat on the rotor and causing rotor denting to happen easier.


I also am not a much of a fan of boost cutting.

Also ive noticed that balancing makes things way smoother and will aid in preventing rotor to housing contact. Its just preference i suppose

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

Twins...

I don't use A/I... Pre mix heavy... So i can't see blaming A/I.

Somthing I notice is that the grooves are deepest near where the Apex Seals are located when combustion begins( About 2 inches away from each plug). I also believe the Un controlled ignition events are causing the marks. Det/pre ign causes extremely high chamber pressures which pushes things in places they aren't supposed to be. Like the monster dents in the rotors. When events happen that cause the rotors dent, you have extreme events going on in dere. I have never pushed the engine through misses/bad ignition like I did that day, never seen scratches that bad before.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

I understand that you dont use AI so that may be the reason your super seals lasted so long is what im getting at.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

I say that because the last go around made it 3,000 miles and marked up the housings worse than the 25,000 mile one.

I agree that the AI has to affect the lubrication, To what extent I don't know.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

Had some time today so I started resurfacing the housings. I do 100-220-320-400-600 but need to go back to 100 one more time, still not down far enough. After that I will do 800-1000-2000 gritpaper.

Karack here is one of the ports will more bevel.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

so you ran AI when you got 3k on your last motor?
And if you have had bad luck with the super seals in the past then why would you run them again? They are known for this issue.
The ra classics do well and don't break.

I've never seen someone resurface the housings by hand lol. I guess your seeing if they are still usable but if i were you id send them into GoopyPerformance.con to be resurfaced and the mod to be done at the compression area so the seals stop jumping.

As for your ports They look ok to me but the pics are shitty quality to be sure. People go crazy with bevel when porting but have you every looked at stock ports? They don't have a nutty amount of bevel.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

No never ran AI. The damage to the RA's was my fault not the seals. Has anyone else broke one??

This will be the 3rd time I have resurfaed the housings in this manor. I hear you on goopy but this seems to work and I enjoy doing it my self I spent about 2-3 hours messing with them today, go back to page 2 of this thread to see what they looked like when I tore the engine apart. Vast improvement plus I am not done... I have an idea bouncing around in my head using an old rotor, sideplate, stat gear and e- shaft, milling the tips of the rotor to accept a pistion honing head and rotating that inside the housing with an electric motor... Would be alot more accurate than doing it by hand and my wrists wouldn't hurt.

Pic sucks its a cheap camera. As to the bevel, you don't need the bevel until you port the opening edge to the point the side seal is unsupported and falls in the port. Stock port fully support the seal so you don't need a bevel.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

here are 2 different ports.

Pic 1&3 has an early opening that does not support the side seal. This port wears the side seals, even with a bevel. Tried both ways.

Pic 2&4 has late close and almost stock opening, it keeps the side seal supported. No bevel needed. This port has yet to wear side seals.

If you look and judge where the cornerseal and side seal meet then look at the opening edge you can see.