FD issue bleeding the brakes
04-10-11, 12:43 PM
#1
Passenger
Posts: n/a
FD issue bleeding the brakes
I have taken the master out and pulled everything apart so that I can clean it and make sure everything is clean. I also installed SS brake lines.
I then put it back on the car. I found out that the brake master cylinder and the clutch master feed from the same reservoir and the hose hose going from the brake master to the clutch master was destroyed and looked pretty bad.
I plugged that hose on the brake reservoir and started bleeding the brakes. I used an extra brake fluid bottle with a rubber line going to the bleeder screw. I went across front right to left rear and so on. I got fluid out the front but not the back.
The pedal used to go all the way down and now it only goes down half way.
I cant any fluid out of the rear at all. I have sat on it for like 5 min with a helper pumping and still nothing.
Does the ignition have to be on to do this? also is there something i did wrong?
I then put it back on the car. I found out that the brake master cylinder and the clutch master feed from the same reservoir and the hose hose going from the brake master to the clutch master was destroyed and looked pretty bad.
I plugged that hose on the brake reservoir and started bleeding the brakes. I used an extra brake fluid bottle with a rubber line going to the bleeder screw. I went across front right to left rear and so on. I got fluid out the front but not the back.
The pedal used to go all the way down and now it only goes down half way.
I cant any fluid out of the rear at all. I have sat on it for like 5 min with a helper pumping and still nothing.
Does the ignition have to be on to do this? also is there something i did wrong?
04-10-11, 03:47 PM
#3
did u bench bleed the master first? when bleeding all brakes, u start with the wheel farthest away first(RR, LR, RF,LF). unless u have only one bleeder in the rear and it bleeds both wheels. never heard of the brakes and clutch using the same reservoir, but i've never owned an fd either.
04-10-11, 08:20 PM
#5
You need to bench bleed it first. You cant just install a new master & then bleed it like you would if you were replacing a caliper. Heres a link that shows you how to do it.
http://www.ehow.com/video_2327999_be...-cylinder.html
After you install the master bleed from RR, LR, RF LF.
http://www.ehow.com/video_2327999_be...-cylinder.html
After you install the master bleed from RR, LR, RF LF.
04-10-11, 09:48 PM
#6
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Thanks bro. I was going to give that a shot tomorrow. I was going to use the rear caliper bleeder valves and place then on the master cylinder ports with rubber hoses hanging to a brake fluid cup, but the size of the holes on the master seem to be bigger then the bleeder valves so IDK the easiest way to do this.
As of right now I am only getting half pedal pressure.
As of right now I am only getting half pedal pressure.
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04-11-11, 05:17 AM
#8
Passenger
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04-11-11, 12:15 PM
#10
Passenger
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Tried to bleed the master while in the car with the method suggested. I then reconnected the factory hosed and went to the right rear and started to bleed it. Still go nothing coming out that side. and no liquid went down from the master reservoir.
Someone told me to try to bleed the ABS lines and see if there is air stuck there.
Someone told me to try to bleed the ABS lines and see if there is air stuck there.
04-11-11, 02:20 PM
#13
Passenger
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When i disconnected the hoses from the rear calipers there was some fluid but no much. It seems that the rear is not building much pressure.
04-11-11, 03:33 PM
#15
Passenger
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That works, but i get very little fluid coming out of the rear.
04-11-11, 07:28 PM
#16
Passenger
Posts: n/a
the latest update is. I had my dad give me a hand on pressing the pedal. 3 pumps and the hold all the way down. I had a glass container with a rubber hose to attach to the bleeders. I went from RR,LR,FR,FL then kept going around and it kept pooping air bubbles. I went around the car about 6 times and it keeps pooping air bubbled.
Is this a sign of a bad master?
Is this a sign of a bad master?
04-12-11, 09:04 AM
#18
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Do i need to bleed the clutch system as well or that does not matter? Also is it normal to get bubbles inside the reservoir when pumping the brakes? I think that means that one of the seals in the master is bad correct?
04-12-11, 10:00 AM
#19
Ok, my suggestion is perform the master cylinder and BLEED it. Like Majik stated earlier in the thread and make sure the Master cylinder is completely air-free. Once you do that, you can isolate if the MC is faulty or you have a pipe/line somewhere else leaking air into the system.
To confirm the MC is completely bled, there shouldnt be ANY air bubbles as you pump the brake pedal and it should be FIRM!
Report back after you do that.
-AzEKnightz
To confirm the MC is completely bled, there shouldnt be ANY air bubbles as you pump the brake pedal and it should be FIRM!
Report back after you do that.
-AzEKnightz
04-12-11, 11:21 AM
#21
So my suggestion, INSTEAD of going all around, I'd perform the bleeding procedure ONLY at the rear wheel and just keep pumping until ALL air bubbles are out. Seem like you've got quite a bit of air in the system. (make sure all other brake bleeders are tightly closed). It will take alot of effort to get rid of every little bubble in there unless you have a pressure bleeder.
This had happened to a customer's of mine before who performed his own installation of a MC and didnt bench bled the system. However using a gravity bleed could be a problem. However here's a trick that I've been taught and used. Pump the brake pedal until it is getting a tad firm, crack open the RR bleeder valve and have someone pump the brake pedal around 5-10 times.
DURING this 5-10 time pumping duration, crack it OPEN and CLOSE the bleeding valve immediately (usually around the 6th pumping action) and then REOPEN the bleeding valve. This action will forces the air to rush to the bleeder valve that's being open and once close it is compressed and during the reopening time frame, many air bubbles will be forced out to the bleeder valve.
Once that's done, repeat the pump 5-10 more times and it should become MORE firm. Repeat the closing and opening action until you get rid of ALL air bubble.
This is a tedious procedure however that's probably the best way to do it since you dont have any professional pressure bleeder. Good luck and report back.
-AzEKnightz
04-12-11, 11:24 AM
#22
IDK if that will help. There seems to be something letting air back in the system. It is not normal for me to release all the air out of the front calipers and then when I go around the car and back to that place more air comes out.
Do i need to bleed the clutch system as well or that does not matter? Also is it normal to get bubbles inside the reservoir when pumping the brakes? I think that means that one of the seals in the master is bad correct?
Do i need to bleed the clutch system as well or that does not matter? Also is it normal to get bubbles inside the reservoir when pumping the brakes? I think that means that one of the seals in the master is bad correct?
-AzEKnightz
04-12-11, 01:29 PM
#23
Passenger
Posts: n/a
Well when i took the reservoir off the MC i noticed the rubber boot between the reservoir and the MC was pretty beat up.
I feels like there is air being let back in the system. Once i start bleeding like you suggested, it gets better pedal pressure, but then it goes back to half way pressure.
I have gone from RR to LR and still the same. Would a leak in the clutch system cause any issues with the brake system.
The system was working fine before I took it apart. I changed the brake lines to SS braided and they are all installed with no leaks on any of the connections.
The only other thing was that i took apart the master cylinder and the reservoir and ran alcohol throw it to clean out the old liquid that was in the cylinder.
I have bled brake systems before and never one this hard.
I feels like there is air being let back in the system. Once i start bleeding like you suggested, it gets better pedal pressure, but then it goes back to half way pressure.
I have gone from RR to LR and still the same. Would a leak in the clutch system cause any issues with the brake system.
The system was working fine before I took it apart. I changed the brake lines to SS braided and they are all installed with no leaks on any of the connections.
The only other thing was that i took apart the master cylinder and the reservoir and ran alcohol throw it to clean out the old liquid that was in the cylinder.
I have bled brake systems before and never one this hard.
04-12-11, 01:43 PM
#24
Well when i took the reservoir off the MC i noticed the rubber boot between the reservoir and the MC was pretty beat up.
I feels like there is air being let back in the system. Once i start bleeding like you suggested, it gets better pedal pressure, but then it goes back to half way pressure.
I have gone from RR to LR and still the same. Would a leak in the clutch system cause any issues with the brake system.
The system was working fine before I took it apart. I changed the brake lines to SS braided and they are all installed with no leaks on any of the connections.
The only other thing was that i took apart the master cylinder and the reservoir and ran alcohol throw it to clean out the old liquid that was in the cylinder.
I have bled brake systems before and never one this hard.
I feels like there is air being let back in the system. Once i start bleeding like you suggested, it gets better pedal pressure, but then it goes back to half way pressure.
I have gone from RR to LR and still the same. Would a leak in the clutch system cause any issues with the brake system.
The system was working fine before I took it apart. I changed the brake lines to SS braided and they are all installed with no leaks on any of the connections.
The only other thing was that i took apart the master cylinder and the reservoir and ran alcohol throw it to clean out the old liquid that was in the cylinder.
I have bled brake systems before and never one this hard.
If there's air in the clutch system then your clutch will be spongy not the brakes. They share the same reservoir but are separate operations if I remembered correctly.
So as compared to before, instead of NO pressure (pedal all the way down) now you have half way (half pressured brake pedal correct?)
If so, you've made progress. I believe you've let TOO much air in the system by NOT bench testing the master cylinder which can be a PITA to get rid of.
So again, my suggestion is STAY on the RIGHT REAR bleeder valve ONLY, and that's it. UNTIL you get a FIRM steady pedal that wont drop to the bottom of the floor or at least too much play in it.
Also, take note when the person is pumping the pedal, make sure the reservoir doesnt empty out, you should get a stream line of brake fluid coming out if performed correctly and that's when you have absolutely NO air bubbles in that wheel. The rest should be a cake after you get that out.
Trust me, it's hard work but I think you can manage.
Report back if it doesnt work. You can damage a seal when cleaning it with alcohol if that seal was originally weaken and ready to go.
Also, make sure none of your caliper pistons are getting stuck, if they do they can create this "spongy" problem too.
Report back and let me know.
-AzEKnightz
04-12-11, 01:47 PM
#25
Thanks bro. I was going to give that a shot tomorrow. I was going to use the rear caliper bleeder valves and place then on the master cylinder ports with rubber hoses hanging to a brake fluid cup, but the size of the holes on the master seem to be bigger then the bleeder valves so IDK the easiest way to do this.
As of right now I am only getting half pedal pressure.
As of right now I am only getting half pedal pressure.
Now my question is, did you ever remove your calipers in the progress of installing you brake lines? If so, double check your calipers to make sure they arent jammed or stuck. A stuck piston will for sure do what you're describing.
-AzEKnightz