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The E85 Thread ~

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Old 05-09-08, 09:12 AM
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Diamond Cut Seven

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The E85 Thread ~

I'm sick of having to look around for info on the E85 facts and what not. If we can just make a fact thread with all the info in it, I'm sure it would benefit alot of people.

Crispeed your input is much needed in this topic.


Some usefull links ~

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=E85

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341

http://e85vehicles.com/e85/index.php


My questions are very simple with the right tune can my new fuel system support daily driving on E85?

Walboro 255
850 CC primary modified rail
1300 Secondaries
Apexi PFC

HKS intakes
Resonated 3 inch exhaust

Second question do I have to upgrade the fuel system itself such as the FPD or regulators? Is the high alch content going to corrode the lines internally?
Old 05-09-08, 11:19 AM
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top row 2nd from left..me

 
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Not enough fuel. Guy I know is running 6 injectors for e85. None are under 1k cc's.
Old 05-09-08, 02:27 PM
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Diamond Cut Seven

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From another member ~
I don't want to set myself up as an expert on running E85 in an RX7. I am in the fuel retail business so I know something about E85, but I am not a tuner, nor do I know anyone first hand who is running E85 in an RX7. The closest person I am aware of is a member on this site who goes by the name crispeed. You might want to check out his posts regarding E85.

The bad news is there are so many members on this forum with an opinion in search of facts. It is unlikely anyone would does not already know something will learn much from reading most of the threads on this site. Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate this web site, it has been a great resource for me in a lot of ways. I just don't find it a good place to get reliable information if you don’t already have a pretty good idea about how to separated fact from *!*~?*, if you know what I mean. Much of the E85 stuff I have seen posted here is just people repeating what they heard someone else say. An example would be comments about how corrosive E85 is on engine parts. I can tell you that the real research relative to this does not show a significant problem with corrosion of engine parts. As a matter of fact, preliminary findings show some benefit because the alcohol acts to clean internal engine parts. This is not to say there are no long term negative effects, just that the “E85 will destroy your engine” comments are not based on fact or research, just people repeating what they heard from someone else who didn’t know what they were talking about. The real reason people get into trouble with E85 is they run it in cars that are not tuned for it and there engine runs too learn which can destroy it. (need approximately 30% more fuel). That is what flex-fuel vehicles do, they are equipped with ECUs that can read the exhaust and tune the fuel mixture on the fly. That is why owners can fill up with E85 and then, at half a tank fill up with straight gasoline or any thing in-between. Their onboard ECU will retune the vehicle to the proper air/fuel ratio on the fly.

I would suggest you do your own research on the Internet regarding E85, then read the info available on this site. There are a number of sites that you can visit that will get you started in understanding what it is. This much I can tell you. It is a high-octane fuel, which produces less energy than gasoline. That means that you need more of it to produce the same amount of energy, which equals the need for more fuel across the rpm range. It is a much cooler burning fuel then gasoline and therefore is far less prone to pre-detonation, (this is a very good attribute for rotary engines and the main reason I am interested in using it).

It is in what I would call the bleeding edge stage of use in rotary engines and therefore, much like gambling, you probably shouldn't play if you can't afford to lose. I am working with A-Spec, who is presently building a 500r turbo for me. They have a very good reputation and have tuned racecar applications on alcohol, however when I asked them about tuning my car for uses with E85, they stated they had not actual tuned one to E85 yet. I am sure they could do it, and would make it work if I could keep coming back until we got it tweaked-out, but I live 700 miles from them. So there you go.

I don't know if I helped you any, but I would tell you to do your homework before you jump in. It could be a very expensive mistake. By the way, it is very unlikely that E85 is the fuel of the future. Ethanol is the primary reason we are seeing record grain prices right now. Our government is not exactly on top of the planning process. Even thought new technologies are emerging almost weekly in the area of grain alcohol extraction, ultimately I see some real problem with the economy of ethanol in general. Our country does not have an energy strategy right now, so no one really knows where, or if the dust will settle. The only reason it is so much cheaper is because of federal government tax policy and subsidies. It actual cost more to produce right now that gasoline. That will change with the cost of crude climbing and technology coming on line, but the rest of the economy is taking a real hit because of the lack of leadership. I think the whole ethanol thing could go away, or be reduced to a sidebar type industry. I know there is a lot of investment right now in ethanol refineries, but this could be one of the biggest missteps in our history? We will see.

Sorry for the long post, but you seemed to want more of an answer than the brief one I previously offered. Thanks Rd
Old 06-21-08, 01:01 AM
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I'm no rotary guru, but I was asking myself some of the same questions. The facts are this. Ethanol is not any where near as corrosive as methanol, but some of the same steps need to be taken. First under ideal conditions you need at least 30 percent more E85 as in your injectors need to flow 30% more fuel when running the E85. The second thing is timing will be much different as you can run sooo much more advance on E85 which is tricky on a rotary. The most important things are using either stainless or plastic fuel line, nickel plate or anodized injectors. The place where I become concerned is the chamber with the rotors and how it is burned could become an issue with corrosiveness. It will burn much more cleanly as opposed to gasoline as well. Thats about the extent of what I have. I'm searching for the same info beyond that specifically to the rotary. I do know with a piston engine the clearances need to be different as well with piston to wall and I'm gonna bet the same thing comes into play with the apex seals.
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