BigTone

Question? If you label the Supra as a GT car, what do you lable the FC or the FD?

adamlewis

Unreliable?

minclo

badass

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Well Sports car and Grand touring I would say ARE different classes.

minclo

I like mine better

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

Why do FCs corner better than FDs? Best number turned in by a magazine was .91gs for a FC while .98Gs was pretty standard for the FD and I believe one got 1.00Gs. Tires probably made a big difference, but Mazda wouldn't have bothered to introduce the FD if it cornered WORSE than the FC.

As for the displacement thing let me put it this way - If you don't understand why a rotary breaths like a piston engine of twice its displacement, please take the rest of our words for it. (when I say breath I mean performs combustion too) I can produce material that proves it, but if you haven't understood yet, you wouldn't understand this material. (no offense intended) Does this mean the rotary is a sham? Hardly, but it does it's thing differently and more efficiently with respect to size and weight.

BigTone

LOL, I totaly agree with you there. I have put two engines into my car in the last year and half. Now I am rebuilding it again.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Well I do understand it. Just allow me to remain in denial. I would rather think that reasuring the Rotary's breating with the piston method is incorect. If that is true or not I don't know but I would rather it be true.

It is only too sad that mr. wankel passed on maybe I would have warmed up to the idea.
:-/

adamlewis

Two statments hold true when it comes to RX's


1) Youve got to pay to play

and

2) Go big or go home!

BigTone

Brilliant

Coundnt have said it better myself.

DeepInTheGame

No 13B can produce that!!! stock 13B's produce like 150HP, a turbo can produce it though lol. The 3 rotor drag car that shot for 6's has 1200HP I believe, so I doubt a 13B can hold anything like that.

BigTone

Totaly true. Unless I have been smoking way to much, I am sure that the FD handles alot better then an FC.

Umm...as for the displacement thing, I am sure that you have read all the arguements that are posted all the time. My belief is that Mazda made then engine, Mazda knows the displacement. Even if you then go that Mazda had an secret agenda and wanted to "make" the engine small. SAE agrees that the engine is 1.3. And honestly so does nearly everyone else. So why argue about it? With the engine you can manipulate the numbers to make it almost anything you want, 1.3L, 2.6L, or even 3.9L.

Mykl

Sucks that I didn't get the video from another Supra owning friend of mine showing how he just couldn't catch me. But hey... this is the internet, and unless you have hard proof you're going to have doubters, so doubt away.

As far as talent is concerned.... until you drive with me, sitting in the passenger seat, you have absolutely no idea how "untalented" I am. Have you ever even set rubber to a track before?

The talent comment combined with your statements comparing the handling abilities of different cars based off of skidpad numbers lends you no credibility.


...and I've seen 2nd gen stock Integras on r-comps hold off twin turbo Supras before. yeehaw The Supra is a capable car, but it isn't a good car to run on tracks where you can barely peek into the triple digits. They're still quick, but they aren't unbeatable unless they can stretch their legs.

rotary>piston

Yeah, I can't see a supra down at the autocross. Holding a certain amount of G's is one thing, handling is another. Any car can hold 1G with the right tires, it's actually making successive turns that determines handling.
Displacement in a piston engine is defined as the total amount of space that would exist if all of the pistons were at BDC. In a rotary it isn't as simple, but basically I think the 1.3 liter measurement comes from how much space is in each rotor housing thing. The total displacement of one rotor's area (adding up all three chambers) doesn't ever change, it just gets distributed differently as the engine spins. I think if you layed the engine on it's side (with one housing removed so you were looking down at the rotor in it's housing, basically if you removed one section of the engine and looked at it, you'd see the rotor in there on the shaft) and filled all three chambers with water youd get a total of 654cc (one rotor's worth) displacement.
I don't know about the CFM taken in by a rotary and how all of that compares, but what i do know is that the N/A RX-7 has the biggest intake pipe I've ever seen on a car. The N/A RX-7 is often compared to 2.2 liter engines because it's makes about the same amount of power, so it's not really a 2.6 liter by any means.

Mykl

Just because a car can post impressive skidpad and slalom numbers does not make it a good handling car. I don't know why so many people quote these numbers as gospel when evaluating the handling abilities of a car.

skim41

Go look at the JGTC, that says a lot. The supra is still number one, followed by the Skyline. After that the MRS is before the FD.

However the FD is a great car. In Japan there are several 700/840 (if not mistaken) 13B rew Rotaries.

You can find them in the Hyperrev magazine, if you dont have one I can send you one.

Mykl

Snrub, could you please post that material concerning the diplacement arguement. I'd like to read it.

Ni5mo180SX

I dont think its fair to compare the JGTC Supra. Using an NA V8 and tube frame chassis is a far cry from the same Supra's you see out on the streets. Also, the MRS and FD are in a different class from the others.

Also, about the FC/FD handling debate, im not quite sure. The FD offers its double wishbone suspension and PPF which increasres torsional ridgitiy quite a bit. Also, FD's engine is mounted lower and further back then the FC. But the FC is a bit lighter and its suspension design really isnt a slouch either. Guess it comes down to tuning at that point. Just my two cents.

BlackRx7

#1 Why would you want 1000hp?

the car would not be drivable, race only

it would be impossible to get traction in a 2700 lb car with 1000 hp

The motor would prolly last between 3-7 runs

To get an rx7 in to the 9s or even 8s isn't as hard as you think...wed redux...a TII that weight 2300-2400lb with 400 rwhp, with a 4.30- 4.44 final gear, big enough slicks and the right differential your there, (well with the help of a stanalone with a 2 step launch program)

edomund

skim41
The reason the FD can't compete with the Supra, Skyline or NSX is because Mazda doesn't give any Factory support to JGTC racing.

Thats why they run in a lower class GT 300 the others are in th 500 class.

RE Amemiya funds their FD's by themselves no factory support from Mazda (they are privateers) unlike Honda Nissan and Toyota fund their cars.

I spoke with one of Amemiyas drivers in San Fransico once!

edomund

I believe Souls FC was running close to 800HP and 9's before he dissasebled it to come back to the US.

The Unsent

if any one has ever seen the movie "lost highway" by david lynch. there is an old mercades with 1400hp. I dont know if itsreal or not, but WOW> 1400HP!!!!

Rotary?Cool

Think of what a four pot engine does in one revolution of the crank........It only fills two of its cylinders in one cycle or 360 degrees. While two pistons are compresing 180 degrees and igniting 180 degrees the other two are intakeing 180 degrees and compressing 180 degrees. Now think of the rotary which completes the entire process of a 4 stroke engine in 360 degrees. So while your piston engine does a suck squeeze that takes an entire rotation of the crank my rotary engine just sucked, squeezed, ignited, and exhausted in one revolution. Thats why a rotary engine of 1.3L can be compared to a piston engine 2.6L, the rotary completes an entire combustion cycle in the same time a piston engine does half..

ERAUMAZDA

Who's comparing a skyline/supra with an FC/FD. The rotary is amazing and puts out a lot of horsepower per liter. comparing 2 rotors to inline 6's is just insane. You will have more horsepower and more torque. Period.

Carlos gonzalez has a 91 fc that puts out 900hp on two rotors with no spray. If you want 1000hp out of a motor a 3 rotor is the way to go......it is more of a fair comparsion. Getting 1000 horses out of a 2 rotor is like trying to get 1000 hp out of a civic.

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Snrub has been to the track plenty of times.

Also, your lack of comprehension of his point, doesn't give you much credibility in terms of comparing 2 cars. He was never attacking your skill level.

Your scenario is based on 2 different cars with 2 different drivers. The only way to compare any given car to another, especially on a track, is with the same driver. Especially with 'amateurs' like us.

I have gotten my *** handed to many on many a lap by a better driver in a worse car than my TII.

Just because Schumacher in his Ferrari beats Montoya in his Williams, doesn't automatically mean that the Ferrari is the superior car.

That was his point.