hamster

Ok so I tried the DLIDFIS set up as per Jeff20B's suggestions on my 1985 gsl-se 13B.

So far so good. The set up was pretty easy. Nothing is over heating or melting or burning out or shorting...

I have been on a couple of test drives now. I have noticed that there are no backfires of any sort on deceleration. I am not sure if there is more low end torque yet...I will need to go out and try some traffic light drag starts to measure that...

All in all, I like it...I will post any other findings as I find them

Thanks Jeff20B for the idea...

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Ah yes, that's the sort of positive feedback I crave!

Glad hear that it's working for you! I've been very curious to know how it runs on a GSL-SE because my bro used to have one. The distributors are pretty much the same as used on the 12A cars so the main difference would be the fuel injection.

When your secondaries open, does it feel better than before? Is your exhaust stock? Do you still have an oxygen sensor? Are you using BR8EQ-14 or BR9EQ-14 plugs? How is your air filter?

By the way, what materials did you use? Did you read my article? was it easy to follow? Or did it just ramble on with unnecessary info?

I installed another dizzy in my friend's 13B last night which happened to have 25* of mechanical advance. His old damaged dizzy only had 20* of advance like mine. Now his low end is much better than it used to be. No more wiggling dizzy shaft!

I may start buildng another DLIDFIS kit for my other rotary friend tomorrow. We had a conversation about it today and it looks like a go. I can't wait to see how it performs on his GSL-SE engine.

hamster

My exhaust is still stock...unfortunately...I still use an O2 sensor because it is needed with the FI.


I used the stock ignitor harness for the trailing stuff, just unplugged the leading ignitor and leading coil. I used another stock harness from a bone yard to go from the two ignitors to the two leading coils. I figured that the stock harness was already designed for two coils...I did read your article. That is where I got the idea. I woud like to see how this compares to an MSD set up, but I am not willing to pay for an MSD just now.


In all I like the set up. I am interested now in the longevity of it. We will have to wait until many miles have been driven for that...

speckamp

Jeff,
Just wanted to chime in. I just bought a second ignitor off e-bay to use for the ignition setup. I've got an MSD box mounted in the car (And have had it for a while, I was just waiting to finish a few maint. items before wiring it up) and I've decided to basically forgoe it for now (maybe I'll use it for the trailing ign.) in favor of the direct fire setup.

Anyway, my story is this, I had moved the trailing coil in preperation for installing the dual leading coil setup in the OEM location and was experiencing some idle problems, and some surging on decel problems... I re-wired that with higher gauge wires and soldered the connections well and I'll be damned but the car starts easier, accels better, and doesn't surge at all now.

I can't wait to setup the leading ignition now... I'll let you all know how it goes.

I'm running 9EQ's and 7mm wires right now with 1 blaster 2 coil and an ORIGINAL coil on trailing and a brand new bosch O2 sensor.

--matt

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Speckamp, could you run each system for a similar amount of miles and tell me how the plugs are doing?

My friend was getting some surging problems too. They were caused by Trailing sparks that were happening at the wrong time. A new Trailing coil to cap wire fixed that prob. Now he can creep on the idle circuit like I can.

Hmm, I think I'll upgrade my wires to 10 guage (like I did on my friend's setup) now that I have a spool of it. I still need to get new plug wires too, yet my engine never misses since I replaced my Trailing coil to cap wire too! Deceleration is nice and smooth. Maybe I don't need to.

speckamp

The MSD and the Dual Ignitor? Sure. Tho I plan on putting the car away for the season by halloween. But at 30 miles a day, I can see what I can do. I just need to find long enough plug wires to get from the OEM coil location to the plugs..

I've got a set of 8MM accels, but they're the lame "crimp your own" kind. blargh

--matt

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Yeah, I don't envy you guys with the coils so far away from the plugs.

Yeah, 30 miles a day should be good for testing purposes.

By the way, I asked my friend last night about gas mileage and he said it has improved with DLIDFIS.

kf4yas

I want to try the setup, but I have a problem. I have a 13b with Camden blower and a carb. I want to keep the stock crank angle sensor, and run Mallory or MSD.

My problem comes from not having the wiring harness from the crank angle sensor to the coils. No where on the web does it give a detailed installation. I need wiring for dummies.

I'm good with electronics and wiring, just scared of tearing up something.

I'm open to any suggestions since this is going in a kit car.

Thanks for any info you can give,
Robert

riffraff

pardon my ignorance , but what is the DLIDFIS setup

V8kilr

if your not using an msd then this is a
PMDFIS
Poor Man's Direct Fire Ignition System

not
DLIDFIS
Dual Leading Ignitor Direct Fire Ignition System


heres the diference

lmk if im wrong

riffraff

why do you have to designate it as a dual leading ignitor..
if i am not mistaken, which i donot think i am on this one, direct fire means that there is a seperate coil for each plug. thus four coils necessary, two for leading and two for trailing...

V8kilr

two for leading one for traling.

if you had two for trailing one spark would be off by 120 degrees on each combustion cycle which means it would spark right into the intake cycle on both rotors at diferent times,
meaning everything your engine is working so hard to do,your trailing plugs are working to go opisit.

V8kilr

as for the dual leading ignitor,
that is because you use 2 ignitors on the leading,
just like a 2nd and 3rd gen,
but you can use just one,

its also possible to use just one and an msd ignition box going into 2 coils.

which will be my setup once i get some new msd wires custom made.

i already have
1 msd 6a
3 msd blaster2 coils

soon to have 2 blaster ss coils to replace 2 of the blaster 2's

riffraff

thanks v8kilr. but why would one necessarily be off by 120 degrees (realise that i am not very fimiliar with the spark cycle)

V8kilr

well one rotor is off by 60 degrees
otherwise the two rotors would line up perfectly and you would have a very wobbly engine on your hands,

when you convert to direct fire you get twice as many sparks,

which means the spark that was made for your #1 rotor is now going to your #1 and #2 at the same time,

this will not hurt anything because of the offset of the rotors,
the "wasted spark" fires at the begining of the exhaust cycle,
which just helps to burn left over gass,

the true advantage of the system is a stronger hotter spark created from the two coil setup "and msd box in some aplications"
the wasted spark also contributes but it is more of an added bonus rather then the actual goal of a direct fire setup.

with the stronger and more multiple sparking igintion system people say it sounds more tame like a 2nd or 3rd gen "probably because it is the setup they use"
they say less backfiring,
quicker startups
more low end torque
more relaibility
etc

i can not confirm any of this because i have not yet converted over,
but i will say that i currently run a msd 6a with dual coils
wired the wrong way "firing off the coil not dizzy"
and ever since i installed it i imediatly noticed
quicker startups,
way more low end torque,
3rd gear pulls very nice now,
smoother idle,

but i havent had a smoother sounding exhaust like a 2nd or 3rd gen,
or less backfiring,
of course i dont have direct yet either,

oh and because i didnt look into direct fire when i first setup the system i now have to change my dizzy cap every month,
the msd box and coils just burn it out fast.


when i convert over this problem will be taken care of and the leading section of the dizzy cap will be bypassed all together which means i'll have to change it every couple years im guessing

crafoo

Hey everyone. I want to give this a shot as well. I have 2 extra coils and an extra distributor I pulled off an old 82 12A blown engine. I also have a 88 TII crank angle sensor eheheh. don't think that last one will do me much good.

What else do I need? I've got 10ga. wire laying around. Do I need any coaxial cable for this mod?

Thanks, later

P.S. It would be ULTRA COOL if we could convert the dizzy into a crank angle sensor feeding a simple ignition computer. Somehow install digital hall-effect sensors in the base (detects metal object proximity)? Have that drive an op-amp which switches on a power transistor, which feeds juice to the coil? Am I off my rocker here? Maybe a simple optical rotary encoder mounted on the shaft instead of the christmas tree.....hmmmm.

crafoo

Hmmm, I just finished the rear springs and rear end inspection. While I was down in the garage I looked over the 88 TII CAS and my spare 82 distributor. I have both spare ignitors on it. sweet! It appears the 88 CAS sits up about 1/4"-1/2" higher - so, not as deep. It looks like if you could mill off that much on the mounting surface, and drill tap new mounts it might fit in the 12A. Am I completely crazy? Anyone looked at this at all? I'd want to use 2nd gen coils with the system - and a custom ignition controller.

Of course the 12A distr. looksl like it has magnetic sensors and that interesting looking paddle wheel with 4 paddles at 90 degrees to each other. Hey, I don't know a whole heck of a lot about distributors, so don't be too harsh.

I looked through my manuals and can't get a good idea how ignitors do their job. I assume the coils are always "charging", how is the discharge to the plugs done? Are ignitors solid state relays? help me out here.

I assume the christmas tree must be used because the original ignition system uses one coil for both leading plugs, and one coil for both trailing plugs.

Aaah. I get it. The ignition mod u guys are talking about does away with using the christmas tree for leading plugs by using two leading coils and ignitors. Could you do the same with the trailing ignition system? How much of a heat sink do you need on the ignitors?

On a related topic, what about the vacuum advance system? Does it really matter? I don't have mine hooked up at the moment.

all right later alls, time for another cup of smooth, delicious coffee [dammit, can't stop the hands from shaking]

V8kilr

read what i just posted above your posts


i'll be disconnecting my vacum advance when i do the conversion,


here are some sites to help you better understand how this is performed,what you will need,what to expect.

cheap direct fire

Poor Man's Ignition (PMDFIS)

Dual Leading Ignitor Direct Fire Ignition System

rotary truck forum thread

the best article out there, Yaw Power Ignition

crafoo

Hey thanks V8kilr, those sites esp. Yaw's are exlnt. Looks like I might try doing this next weekend assuming I have everything that is needed.

I don't really understand what you wrote about the trailing spark. I'll check it out again and read thru the sites and my haynes.

thanks

abeomid

yeah, I run autox and I think I'm gonna go out do this soon when I get enough money

V8kilr

this ahs been the most complete DLIDFIS thread i could find,
I think it needs to go in the archive.

mar3

iTrader: (8)

This definitely needs to be archived if simply to have all the links in one place...I read through all of it again and noted the times in the distant past they were written...all of jeff20B's points are legit and make sense from an electrical equation (as in Physics 101...) standpoint...I personally plan on using the magnetic trigger to fire two Accel boxes with their attendant coils for maximum fire in the hole....

mar3

iTrader: (8)

With the insertion of this link, this has truly become the ultimate DLIDFIS thread...many thanks to V8kilr for doing the leg work...

Pros and Cons of the MSD box in a DLDFIS set-up plus a link to Jeff20b's alternative DLIDFIS

What else does it need to get stickied??

Rotortuner

OK guys i have a quick question. I went bare block on the two motors that i run in my vehicles. so on those 2 vac. line on the distributor, i just blocked those off. (1st gen electronic). so now this is my question. I have the timing set to where i want it and the vac. lines are blocked but i still get advance when the motor is at anything but idle. Is this the mechanical advance? if so how is there a good way to lock it in so that nothing advances?

CJG

V8kilr

Thanks but i went even further,

go to my site then go to the TECH section then click igntion

Here is the direct link


I have to upload the ignition 101 article but will have it up tommorrow

NOW THATS COMPLETE