TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

Would this be a good size to start with?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/16x12...QQcmdZViewItem

NZConvertible

Why would you spend money making a new TMIC? No matter what core you use you can't increase the cooling airflow through it and it'll still heatsoak like a bastard.

Jaiyurai

iTrader: (30)

and why?? you can only cram so much air into the hood scoop. Spend money elsewhere or save it up for a FMIC.

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

I'm sure its far less expensive than a vmount and that there are ways to get around the heatsoaking.

phoenix7

oooooooooooh you figured out a way to prevent hot air from rising?????????????? I'm nominating you for the Nobel Prize bro. this is amazing!!!!!




if you're gonna spend $$ on a new core then you might as well fo FMIC. Don't get the HUGE cores that only allow half of the IC to be exposed to AIR but don't go too small. (be careful because you will be reducing the amount of fresh air going to the oil cooler.)

phoenix7

for FMIC I'd go 30"x8"x3"

or no bigger than 36"x10"x3" to fill up the front opening perfectly.

NZConvertible

The only way to do that would be to duct the air leaving the IC out the engine bay in such a way that hot underbonnet air doesn't rise up through it. Then you'd have to thoroughly insulate all exposed surfaces on the IC so it doesn't absorb any of the heat from the same hot underbonnet air. Good luck with that...

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

Bigger scoop with a fan.

Why would that not work? When the temp under the IC gets too high a fan can come on.

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

Blah Blah.

I am planning to first attempt Methanol Injection directly into the intercooler. BDC is using methanol injection and using the TMIC and is pushing 400 RWHP. Works for me.

There are trade offs everywhere, an FMIC will block airflow to the radiator. Everyone has an opinion, use what is best for you.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Top mounts can work just fine. Yes they do heat soak faster than a front mount but this is mostly a problem at idle such as at a light. After you are moving and air is flowing through it, it cools down pretty quickly. It does not take much airflow through a core to cool it off. Typically installing an intercooler out in the airstream isn't the most efficient way of doing it either as alot of air just goes around it. Even a front mount should be ducted with a maximum open area that is still 20% smaller than the core (not core + end tanks) size.

Every system does have advantages and disadvantages over other designs. A top mount is nice as it keeps piping short and lag times down. It also doesn't block cooling flow to the radiator and yes a front mount does affect temperatures somewhat. The top mount disadvantage is heat soak when sitting still or moving slowly compared to a front mount. The stock top mount is a good design for the flow levels of the stock turbo but gets pushed too hard for larger turbos unless you have methanol to cool the air down. A larger core in top mount fashion with better end tank designs and a better inlet to the throttlebody could actually do quite well.

Just because it's a top mount does not mean that it sucks. Far from it. Take a look at alot of fast WRX's. I say try it. The worst thing that could happen is that you don't like it but at least you'd learn something from it.

NZConvertible

A bigger scoop will probaly look ugly unless you have a whole new custom hood, and there's nowhere under the TMIC to put a suitable fan. The idea is great and has proven to be very effective in other applications, but there's just no room for a fan under the FC's TMIC.

Just becasue it can be done, doesn't mean it's a smart way to do it. Cooling issues aside, the physical size of the stock core would make it extremely restrictive to 400hp of airflow. That means the turbo must push much harder to make the same manifold pressure. Basically it's a very inefficient way to do it. What's the point? Just to say that you can?

That's a common misconception, but not correct. If a FMIC blocked airflow, it wouldn't work because no air would be passing through it. The problem is that the incoming air is heated by the FMIC, which reduces its cooling capacity. A lot of FMIC installs I've seen have very poor airflow management, with air being allowed to spill out after passing through the IC instead of going through the radiator. That just reduces cooling capacity further.

djmtsu

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I know FMIC's can be fine even with a stock radiator, but you know as well as I do that most people cut corners and just slap it on there without providing any ducting. I actually want to run a FMIC in the future.

twilight slide

maybe a v-mount is in your future?

Mutaku

In terms of FCs even while moving the TMIC does not cool down that much. You still have the burning rotary engine under it with no where for the heat to go.

If you where going to put work into a TMIC you would probably be better off going with a VMIC because you can get a bigger core. If this was an impreza I would say go for it as it has space up top but the FC bay is cramped as it is. What are u planning for your car anyway?

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

I wish i had a TII to measure with, but i dont right now , i'd like to know what modifications to the hood i'd need to do.

Also, Why can a fan go on top of the core as long as it's insulated?

Even if i did make an entirely new hood, you still have to do that with a v mount as well. The cost would be far less, you wouldn't have to cut any holes in your frame or remove your wiper reservoir, there would be less weight, less lag, and ideally not too much modification.

Now if only I had a TII hood.

Also, since when don't fmic heaksoak at a stop?


There is much more experience with fmic and vmounts but i think it'd be interesting to explore the options of the tmic system, as long as i monitor my iats i dont really have to worry about much. just the fan blowing off the ic at stops or slow speeds.

Also

How does the stock tmic work then? There is place for the air to go, remember im drawing air from the outside.

NZConvertible

Absolutely wrong. In case you hadn't noticed, the hood scoop is not the only hole in the engine bay for air to flow out. There's that big one at the bottom...

It can't be any bigger than 6" diameter (you'd need two for it to be effective) and low profile, it has to be a pusher, it has to have a 12V motor and it has to be completely weatherproof. Good luck in your search.

There's only a very small amount of heat that can make it to a FMIC, some transferred through the pipes and some radiated off the radiator and oil cooler. It's far, far less than an IC sitting right on top of a motor.

Mutaku

Even then I don't see enough flow to completely eliminate the heat soak the TMIC is receiving. There is no way around it the TMIC gets hot even while moving. While it is more efficient at higher speeds a FMIC or VMIC would do better.

I wasn't talking so much about the air going through the actual intercooler core as i was the air under the heat shield of the intercooler.


I think best way to figure out a good fit for a custom TMIC is to make one from card board or something of that nature.

NZConvertible

A little lesson in thermodynamics. Heat is transferred three ways; convection (heat carried by moving air), conduction (heat transferred through materials) and radiation (the heat you feel when close to hot objects or in sunlight). Usually all three occur to some degree at the same time.

In the case of a TMIC, when there's airflow through the scoop heat is being removed by convection, but it's also being added by conduction and radiation from the engine. When the car is moving the pressure generated by the scoop is far higher than the thermal buoyancy of hot air under the IC, so there is enough outside air passing through it (and hence heat being convected away) to keep the intake temp down to reasonable levels. I know this because I have an intake temp display that proves it.

When you stop, hot air is then (and only then) able to rise up through the core due to its thermal buoyancy, adding heat by convection instead or removing it, which in combination with the conduction and radiation off the engine causes the core temp to rise quickly.

Anybody who thinks hot air rises out through the scoop when the car's doing more than walking pace would be mistaken...

twilight slide

FWIW, I have a Pulsar GTiR topmount , and it seems to be the just about the biggest IC that can possibly be fitted in a top mount configuration. It has to be in the exact spot for the hood to close, I could grab some measurements if you like. . .

Mutaku

I did a drive test to see how hot the TMIC is after driving and it is actually pretty cold. I guess I was thinking the the radiating heat would cause it to be hotter. On another note if you want to go with a TMIC I think your best bet would be to get a bigger hood scope design that doesn't look like crap. Would still be hot from a prolonged stop but would be a simple install i'd imagine with most of the money going into the hood.