RL is using the 6 Cyl. application for both 2 and 3 rotors. That's from RL.

 

This is a question I have also, in case I need to run 8 injectors in the futur for a different motor (big dreams) or if I want to also shut off some AInjectors with my 3-rotor (current reality)

I'd rather have the ability to control 8 injectors if the functionality for my 3-rotor is retained. Seems like it ought to work just fine given that the 6-cylinder application is used for 6 and 4 injector applications. I just would like confirmation please.

Thank you.

 

+1


Depending on the answer I think I may have to change one of my units to a V8 one for my 3 rotor to support AI, since I will be running AI on both my cars.

 

6 injector unit will be most logical and failure safe for programing purposes since injector locations are fixed mechanicaly (2 & 3 rotor) and this aspect is important for knock reduction... my tip

 

It's been mentioned that one of the wires would be used for full throttle shift (clutch wire I gather). Does this mean that three rotor guys will NOT get FTS? I'm assuming they would use all six wires for their injectors, leaving none free for the clutch wire, if they got the 6 cylinder unit.

Rice, I am unclear why the 8 cylinder unit would be any different? Wouldn't you just identify the number of injectors you are controlling and it would not use the remaining outputs?

 

All it means is the 6cyl unit you will get a FTS but you will need to get another pin and wire put into the harness to access that output on the ECU as it does not come supplied in the harness

In regards to the 8cyl and programing definition I cant say for sure as have not done it but it does not show in software from memory to switch off injectors or if the unit only looks down each signal channel only, but in cut tables its not easily defined if your only using part of the injector pulses (if you follow me) so I recommend you stick with 4cyl for 2 rotor and 6cyl for 3 rotor. + its an extra expense to go 8cyl so for the sake of an extra wire in a harness (two wires) I'd just buy the 6cyl (which is most fool proof) and get them to supply the FTS wire in the loom or bits so you can add it to the loom.

 

Ramy,

Is there anyway you could talk one of the RL techs or spokespeople in here to answer some of the questions that people are having? I think it would eliminate alot of potential misery in the future.

1) For my 3-rotor, if I get the 6-cylinder unit, will they be sure to include what is necessary for the full-throttle shift feature? This is important.

2) RICE reccomends the 4 cylinder application for the 2-rotors, yet the reccomend the 6-cylinder applicaiton. Reconciliation please.

3) What problems would I (and others) run into logistically if we got the 8-cylinder unit for use on our 3-rotor (to keep the door open for additional injector control)?

Anyone else, please feel free to add questions to the list.

 

^I'd like the same questions answered. I'm getting more and more confused as this GB progresses. Please HELP!

 

Agreed, but it's also helpful if we take things as recommended vs. put forth excessive self-analysis

It's included in my post. I said FT is free, just add a wire, didn't I?

No reconciliation necessary. Remember I said earlier in the thread that for 4-bangers, you'll be using the 6 cylinder box and just 4 connectors? So it's still the same unit. Plus I'm ordering these as application-specific units, not as simply model #s.

You're 0 for 2 in reading

I have no idea, and if RL doesn't advise it, I won't offer it, unless it's understood you will undertake such a purchase entirely at your own risk; I won't take any responsibility for it, and I doubt Rice Racing will either if his 3-rotor programming doesn't work as well either.

But hey, I have no problem asking I'll let ya know once I find out.

Thanks,
~Ramy

 

*** I meant to type 6cyl for both 2 & 3 rotor applications *** as per my early posts on it

Reading too much of others posts and that got caught up in my super quick typing without checking my posts after hitting submit, sorry for any confusing.

Just buy the 6cyl unit !, for two rotor you get teh spare wire you need and for 3 rotor you need one more wire and female pin to go into the harness plug for your full throttle switch.... simple

 

Take things as recommended by RL? The same company that you're RECOMMENDING we DON'T take there programming as is? Personally, I'd rather put forth the analysis. . .it's alot cheaper than mistakes.

Yes, but again, RICE advised that we be sure that they include the provisions to do so, which necessitated a DIFFERENT harness than generally comes with the 6-cylinder unit, one with an extra pinout and associated wire. . . hence the price of 100 Pounds on the RL website.

I think it's you that's 0 for 2 RICE said one thing, RL said another. Again, you're for following RICE's advice aren't you? No reconciliation necessary? When 2 people that you're citing as experts (RL and RICE) say 2 DIFFERENT things, to me, some reconciliation is order. It could be as simple as a misscommunication, however it is reasonable for a customer to have little ambiguity about what it is they are about to spend 4 figures on. Maybe I'm just too dumb to see through the ambiguity.

Thank you for looking into that for us.
ryan

 

On that point,

the two aditional injectors, having them spread over 3 rotors is my concern, what exact impact will they have on individual rotors when cut in what patterns, I could not counter that in the basic cut table structure RL offer in the software interface, where as its simple enough in the 6cyl version as the number of injectors = the number of rotors in each case and the programing can take that into account, hence you get smooter operation as described by one of my customers a few pages back. In the RL world injectors = pistons and prograing is a simple process, for us the complexity is the shared arrangement of staged injectors (pairs per rotor) and this needs to be addressed in the file you let the unit operate with on your motor. I dont think I could do it easily without a lot more detail on how people are controling these extra two injectors and where they are placed in the manifold etc etc........ there are alot of variables to take into account.

My own personal suggestion to people is Keep the 2 injector per rotor structure and if you need more fuel upgrade the secondary or primary injectors or both and go with a 6cyl unit for both 2 and 3 rotor cars. And just get the extra wire for the FTS if needed (check with RL through Ramy)

 

my mechanic has no experience with the racelogic unit. is racelogic installation something he (or i with no mechanical background) can do quite easily with just jack and a screw driver? i don't know exactly what the installation entails.

 

Thank you for the clarification RICE. I thought that you probably meant the 6-cylinder when you said the 4-cylinder, that's why I offered the likelihood that it was a simple miscommunication in my last reply.

To finally answer the question (I hope) people could go ahead and get the 8 cylinder unit for their 3-rotor, and leave two wires unattached (or attach one to the FTS and leave the other unattached) and you could program it the same way as the 6-cylinder unit, correct? This option is desirable by a few who would like to go with a V8 in the future or have dreams of maybe one day getting a 4-rotor crank kit. I personally am just getting the 6-cylinder unit, but I believe others would like to take this course if it is an option.

Thank you.

 

No no. It's not that I don't recommend their maps. It's that Rice Racing's maps are BETTER. If I had any worries about RL's base maps from a functional/safety standpoint, I wouldn't sell the part to begin with

RL told me it's quite simple to add the wire yourself, in order to save you guys the money. If you wanna purchase the FTS from RL, I have no problem with that whatsoever, but I was just trying to save you guys some money. Rice, you think it's worth purchasing? Or is it easy enough to be done independently?

That's the thing; they aren't saying 2 different things!

NP.

~Ramy

 

yeah logic says that it should be fine *8cyl* as its the same we are doing running a 6cyl on a 2 rotor , its only *looking* at the injector pulses as it recieves them so yeah but you must only use equal numbers of injectors per rotor!........ just my points on injector location and the distribution influences need to be taken into account. But I will say again because the injector locations are equal for each rotor its better to probably only utilize the *pair of injectors per rotor* strategy similar to how RL envisaged the system being set up in the first place....... ask em if they make a 9cyl version or a 12 cyl version lol (divisable by 3 rotors).

anyway I think people get it now I'd still stick with the 6cyl as its cheaper to add a wire than to step up to the 8cyl board
& the 8cyl board will not count for the fuel distribution issue of not having one injector per rotor (2 into 3 does not go!) and since in the programing you need to cycle the injectors that get cut (to distribute conditions constantly it posses a programing problem which I hope you can all see clearly now).

RR

 

They do make a 12 cyl application, but it comes w/ a nice 12 cylinder price, mind you

Ditto.

 

Hey Rice,

Could you possibly answer the above question for us? My mechanic and I both don't have experience with installation of this type of unit, but he is VERY good with electrical. Would it be at all difficult for him to add another wire and pin to the existing harness to accomodate the FTS?

Thanks in Advance,

Rizwan

 

Competent electronics person is far better than a mechanical only person the write up posted a while back with detail photos is excellent and is 100% in detail, you need a very methodical approach and familiarity with electrics with correct tools to crimp, solder, heat shrink, and run cables etc etc etc but I am sure I typed all this before? to do it right takes time and its no small job. Enough from me I'll leave you all in Ramys capable hands

 

I really like the fact that so many people are interested in full-throttle shift. I'm just wondering how many of us are actually going to use it more than once.

Seriously, FTS in a 3000lb car with a synchromesh gearbox is pretty, ah, abrupt. Cool for the drag people I guess, but make sure you have a nice cookie jar filled with transmission rebuild money!

This reminds me of the people who really, really wanted anti-lag on their road cars. Until they learned that their turbos and exhaust manifolds would last about 3000 miles or less...

Just my $0.02. I'll fit FTS too, but I really think it's going to have limited utility in our cars.

-ch

 

^ I thought the same as you untill I tried it

Once you use it you will NEVER again lift off the accelerator for anything but gentle cruises to the shops *seriously* its electronic load control of the engine and as such it reduces forces placed on the syncro mechanisms and you end up shifting smoother and faster than you could on your own *unless your realy experienced*

Your NOT over stressing the syncro, your helping it ! and the lower rev limit for FTS you never hit as its the natural down slope of the rev drop off for the perfect syncro shift, you will see it in my program its very very smooth, dont knock it till you try it

I'd say to anyone again get this feature its worth the hassels of one extra wire trust me you wont be disapointed ! the FD already has the clutch switch there so make use of it

 

I asked RL:

"1) Some customers would like to know if they can get the 8 cylinder unit for use on a 3-rotor, and leave two wires unattached (or attach one to the FTS and leave the other unattached), and thus run it essentially as a 6-cylinder unit? The point of this is to have provisions for those who are interested in going with a V8 or even a 4-rotor swap in the future (so they won't have to purchase an additional RL unit).

2) I know you mentioned the Full Throttle Shift was essentially free. Am I correct in saying that all you need is one more wire and female pin to go into the harness plug for the full throttle switch?"

Response: "You can use 8cylinder boxes without using all the wires and yes the FTS is just the one wire."

~Ramy

 

Thank you very much gentlemen. . .I believe everything is crystal.
ryan

 

 

I contacted RaceLogic about this and this is their response:
So you tell it the number of "cylinders" (equal to number of injectors, 4 for a two rotor, or 6 for a three rotor motor), and then any extra wires on the unit are ignored. In the case of the 6 cylinder unit, the last two would be ignored for a two rotor application. For the 8 cylinder unit, four of eight wires would be ignored for a two rotor application - quite a waste at a much higher price. In either case, the cut table programming is the same (20 injectors long), so there is no benefit for the 8 cylinder unit in either two or three rotor applications. But if you might want to use it on a V8 someday (or a FOUR ROTOR!!), then it could be considered.

Thanks for your feedback Rice.

-- James