WTF!!! is this video true??? Japan is racist??
11-24-06, 07:54 PM
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WTF!!! is this video true??? Japan is racist??
I found this browsing on youtube and tho it was crazy.. can any of you guys confirm this. i really wanned to visit but i'm really confused now...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xCeK0Trz9E0
i'm not traying to portrait anything negative, just didn't know it was like that.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xCeK0Trz9E0
i'm not traying to portrait anything negative, just didn't know it was like that.
11-24-06, 08:46 PM
#2
Not exactly racist IMO but those places and signs do exist.
For the most part those places have those signs up to keep idiots out because the problem over here is most foriegners come here to bang chicks, party, and make a quick buck. Then the take off and leave all their damage and problems behind. I would compare those signs to "NO Children allowed" signs. They are there because even though some children have manners and can make good decisions when on their own most children don`t. If you come to Japan don`t get offended by those signs just make a note that before you were in that area or at that place some other foriegner was their and his/her actions were stupid enough to make the owners of the place ban you and anyone else from entering.
This does not go for all the places with those sign though some have those signs up because Japan wants to preserve their history and culture, not everyone wants to integrate and have a completely mixed culture.
For the most part those places have those signs up to keep idiots out because the problem over here is most foriegners come here to bang chicks, party, and make a quick buck. Then the take off and leave all their damage and problems behind. I would compare those signs to "NO Children allowed" signs. They are there because even though some children have manners and can make good decisions when on their own most children don`t. If you come to Japan don`t get offended by those signs just make a note that before you were in that area or at that place some other foriegner was their and his/her actions were stupid enough to make the owners of the place ban you and anyone else from entering.
This does not go for all the places with those sign though some have those signs up because Japan wants to preserve their history and culture, not everyone wants to integrate and have a completely mixed culture.
11-24-06, 10:41 PM
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I would say Japan is a country for Japanese people. It doesn't really welcome a melting pot society, however what circuit theory says is true, the reason why some stores have thouse signs is because of incidents in the past. I understand the logic behind the manager's decision to put up signs like that(it does fall into a gray area however), however to ban an entire race of people, is in itself the definition of racisim.
There is racism and xenophobia in Japan, but they don't hoot at you and throw beer bottles at you or anything like that (at least never happend to me), if anything its more passive agressive. Its more likely that they will talk **** about you behind your back, rather to your face, or give you different treatment than Japanese customers.
on a lighter note, here's a related video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I2D1YyIdv_M (I dunno if he's serious though, its labeled under comedy)
There is racism and xenophobia in Japan, but they don't hoot at you and throw beer bottles at you or anything like that (at least never happend to me), if anything its more passive agressive. Its more likely that they will talk **** about you behind your back, rather to your face, or give you different treatment than Japanese customers.
on a lighter note, here's a related video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I2D1YyIdv_M (I dunno if he's serious though, its labeled under comedy)
11-25-06, 07:09 AM
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it's very easy to call japan a racist country, it certainly fits the bill by many current western definitions
but it's rarely, "i don't want you in my shop because you are white/black/asian/indian/muslim/christian/jewish
it's more like, "i don't want you in my shop because in the past foreigners have been less than 1% of my customers but caused 50% of my problems"
note that maybe half of the signs shown said that foreigners in the company of japanese were ok, ie a foreign guy with a japanese girlfriend is welcome while a single foreign woman is not
that alone should tell you the issue is already a mile away from racism as most americans understand it
here are few examples of how foreigners can upset/embarrass japanese customers and staff by not knowing the customs and causing those signs to be made
1. refusing to pay a $500 gift to the landlord when renting an apartment, (key money)
2. refusing to remove your shoes in your rented apartment, (destroys tatami)
3. not being able to read the rules regarding garbage separation and so making someone else do it for you
4. arguing about the $5 entree on the restaurant bill that you didn't order
5. arguing about the seating charge at some bars/nightclubs
6. not washing well BEFORE getting in the bath, cento
7. pulling the plug and letting all the water out after having a bath, private house
8. talking loudly in an area japanese people usually like to sit and relax quietly, onsens
9. demanding a business reduce it's charges because an individual who works for the business made a mistake
10. going to a public bath house with visible tattoos
11. even apologizing to a customer of your company for a mistake you made, has to be done by your boss to have any meaning
the list goes on and on but remember japan is a densely populated country, with tiny businesses so when you are confronted by 1 of those signs you rarely have to go far to find the same service without any hassles, at least they are telling you upfront right?
eric e
but it's rarely, "i don't want you in my shop because you are white/black/asian/indian/muslim/christian/jewish
it's more like, "i don't want you in my shop because in the past foreigners have been less than 1% of my customers but caused 50% of my problems"
note that maybe half of the signs shown said that foreigners in the company of japanese were ok, ie a foreign guy with a japanese girlfriend is welcome while a single foreign woman is not
that alone should tell you the issue is already a mile away from racism as most americans understand it
here are few examples of how foreigners can upset/embarrass japanese customers and staff by not knowing the customs and causing those signs to be made
1. refusing to pay a $500 gift to the landlord when renting an apartment, (key money)
2. refusing to remove your shoes in your rented apartment, (destroys tatami)
3. not being able to read the rules regarding garbage separation and so making someone else do it for you
4. arguing about the $5 entree on the restaurant bill that you didn't order
5. arguing about the seating charge at some bars/nightclubs
6. not washing well BEFORE getting in the bath, cento
7. pulling the plug and letting all the water out after having a bath, private house
8. talking loudly in an area japanese people usually like to sit and relax quietly, onsens
9. demanding a business reduce it's charges because an individual who works for the business made a mistake
10. going to a public bath house with visible tattoos
11. even apologizing to a customer of your company for a mistake you made, has to be done by your boss to have any meaning
the list goes on and on but remember japan is a densely populated country, with tiny businesses so when you are confronted by 1 of those signs you rarely have to go far to find the same service without any hassles, at least they are telling you upfront right?
eric e
11-25-06, 08:55 AM
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Eric e - most of the stuff you listed were mere excuses for japanese people who refuse to elevate themselves above their outdated fuedal time period ways of thinking.
If a club, restaurant or any other PUBLIC establishment is not REGISTERED as private members then it can not refuse entry to any person solely based on race, creed, gender, religion,,,,etc. There is actually a Japanese law that forbids racial discrimination but is rarely enforced because many elected officials and/or police do not want to buck the age old system of isolanistic racism. Several businesses in Tokyo and Osaka have been sued successfully for discrimination so many people are watching this issue closely right now.
Establishments that are Japanese only (yes, I have been to more than my share of Japanese only places) are worse than palces that allow gaijins to enter. When a japanese patron causes problems they are usually given several chances to "behave" before they are asked to leave the premises. Unlike places that are frequented by gaijins, the Japanese patrons do not get banned or threatened with a trip to jail. Hell, in some causes the japanese troublemakers are allowed to re-enter a couple hours later without having to repay so they can cause problems again. All you have to do is throw a fake a apology and appear to be sincere while doing it!! I have seen this happen in Okinawa, Nagasaki, Osaka, Fukuoka, Tokyo, Sapporo, Okayama and Fukuyama. It's all about saving face!! Many establishment owners think they will lose customers if they ban habitual trouble makers who have some type of social status (public offfical's spouse or offspring, someone who have had 5 seconds of fame, Yakuza offspring and so forth). Actually they lose customers because of their refusal to ensure the safety of the customers who are not acting like asshats. Yep, japanese people act just like us gaijins...... STUPID!!
Not knowing about the customs concerning tatami mats, onsens, public bath houses and so forth is a given for any person who hasn't studied Japanese culture or doesn't have a guide that knows japanes culture. The rule concerning tattoos in public bathing areas has been deemed discriminatory but just like most japanese laws it is not enforced until someone who knows the law files a complaint.
I love this place but it totally cracks me up when a Japanese person avoids talking to gaijins but freaks out beyond measurement when that gaijin orders their own food, is able to converse in Japanese or just does not fulfill their preconceived image of a bad gaijin. I also love it when japanese people talk **** right in front of your face because they assume that you do not understand what they are saying. hahahahaha...I have had that happen too many times!
Someday these fake appearances and unnecessary formalities will get buried but until then the only thing we gaijins in Nippon can do is deal with it on a case by case basis.
If a club, restaurant or any other PUBLIC establishment is not REGISTERED as private members then it can not refuse entry to any person solely based on race, creed, gender, religion,,,,etc. There is actually a Japanese law that forbids racial discrimination but is rarely enforced because many elected officials and/or police do not want to buck the age old system of isolanistic racism. Several businesses in Tokyo and Osaka have been sued successfully for discrimination so many people are watching this issue closely right now.
Establishments that are Japanese only (yes, I have been to more than my share of Japanese only places) are worse than palces that allow gaijins to enter. When a japanese patron causes problems they are usually given several chances to "behave" before they are asked to leave the premises. Unlike places that are frequented by gaijins, the Japanese patrons do not get banned or threatened with a trip to jail. Hell, in some causes the japanese troublemakers are allowed to re-enter a couple hours later without having to repay so they can cause problems again. All you have to do is throw a fake a apology and appear to be sincere while doing it!! I have seen this happen in Okinawa, Nagasaki, Osaka, Fukuoka, Tokyo, Sapporo, Okayama and Fukuyama. It's all about saving face!! Many establishment owners think they will lose customers if they ban habitual trouble makers who have some type of social status (public offfical's spouse or offspring, someone who have had 5 seconds of fame, Yakuza offspring and so forth). Actually they lose customers because of their refusal to ensure the safety of the customers who are not acting like asshats. Yep, japanese people act just like us gaijins...... STUPID!!
Not knowing about the customs concerning tatami mats, onsens, public bath houses and so forth is a given for any person who hasn't studied Japanese culture or doesn't have a guide that knows japanes culture. The rule concerning tattoos in public bathing areas has been deemed discriminatory but just like most japanese laws it is not enforced until someone who knows the law files a complaint.
I love this place but it totally cracks me up when a Japanese person avoids talking to gaijins but freaks out beyond measurement when that gaijin orders their own food, is able to converse in Japanese or just does not fulfill their preconceived image of a bad gaijin. I also love it when japanese people talk **** right in front of your face because they assume that you do not understand what they are saying. hahahahaha...I have had that happen too many times!
Someday these fake appearances and unnecessary formalities will get buried but until then the only thing we gaijins in Nippon can do is deal with it on a case by case basis.
Last edited by Rutt; 11-26-06 at 12:24 AM.
11-26-06, 08:53 AM
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in the first video a lot of those places a good 75% are hooker bars, hostess bars, karekooke(spelling ) bars, ALL CUZ AMERICANS and foreigners are too loud. This is some
part is true. We find these places a place to get loud and rowdy and japanese think and maybe are a little more relaxed in these places, I have seen alot of places eject Japanese too. Also the signs that are only in ENGLISH are there for a strict reason, if you can read it it means stay out (ONLY cuz this means you cant read the Japanese sign next to it, but if you understand the Japanese one, you will be more then welcome)
Its a little confusing and Japanese are racists people in some areas, but americans are social racists so whats the diff? Ever heard of a dress code? Social status? members only sports club? Yaht clubs? (another reason these signs are up) american military come in, in shorts and a t-shirt) when everyone else is in suits and ties.
Im not defending anyone, why wife is japanese, and she knows as well ALOT of Japanese are racists but if the rest of the world thought the US was like alabama or where ever the KKK is or whatever then maybe no one would be coming to the US, all countries have their problems................
part is true. We find these places a place to get loud and rowdy and japanese think and maybe are a little more relaxed in these places, I have seen alot of places eject Japanese too. Also the signs that are only in ENGLISH are there for a strict reason, if you can read it it means stay out (ONLY cuz this means you cant read the Japanese sign next to it, but if you understand the Japanese one, you will be more then welcome)
Its a little confusing and Japanese are racists people in some areas, but americans are social racists so whats the diff? Ever heard of a dress code? Social status? members only sports club? Yaht clubs? (another reason these signs are up) american military come in, in shorts and a t-shirt) when everyone else is in suits and ties.
Im not defending anyone, why wife is japanese, and she knows as well ALOT of Japanese are racists but if the rest of the world thought the US was like alabama or where ever the KKK is or whatever then maybe no one would be coming to the US, all countries have their problems................
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11-26-06, 01:56 PM
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I'm not surprised the japanese do this...i've seen the way some of my peers behave on vacation. Hell if mexico had the money to forgo tourism they'd probably have a sign saying: "No Canadians traveling south for hookers and pot welcome. Please **** off senior."
You can't really blame the japanese for putting those signs up because a group of white (brown, black whatever) foreigners before went there and ignored the way people behaved and comported themselves in japan and made the rest of us look bad, blame the guy who went there before. Some japanese guy probably decided he's had enuff cleaning up the puke of some kid who threw up after too much sake.
You can't really blame the japanese for putting those signs up because a group of white (brown, black whatever) foreigners before went there and ignored the way people behaved and comported themselves in japan and made the rest of us look bad, blame the guy who went there before. Some japanese guy probably decided he's had enuff cleaning up the puke of some kid who threw up after too much sake.
11-27-06, 01:05 AM
#9
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wow but google is fast
i googled "isolanistic" to find out if it was a word and if so what it meant ;o)
and found rutt's use of it to be number 4!
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...&q=isolanistic
eric e
i googled "isolanistic" to find out if it was a word and if so what it meant ;o)
and found rutt's use of it to be number 4!
http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...&q=isolanistic
eric e
12-08-06, 10:56 AM
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I think alot of you make valid points. This happens to be a reoccuring argument between me (who has never been to Japan) and a friend (who has lived there).
He is a person who is more racialy consious than I am so those points easily stand out to him. For me (who helps run a night spot) I try to give people alot of chances and try and work with people to make sure they arent too druk or a girl pushes a guy because he said something stupid or put his hands somewhere he hasnt. However you will NEVER be able to make those decisions if a person cant speak the same language.
For instance...
Ive also spent alot of time in Mexican dances and I keep myself to my little crew and made sure I learned every way to say excuse me and im sorry before I went in and I used them frequently. Another thing I learned in those spots is that the Mexicans have a habbit of either getting too drunk or high on blow and starting fights or hitting too hard on, or just plain hitting chicks. Breaking beer bottles and stabbing people and tires. Now thats my personal experiance. What do you think is the first thing on my mind if a lone mexicano or worse still a group of 3 or 5 walk thru my door?
My point is exactly the same as JT-Imports, if you cant read my rules or understand my direction when I try and calmn you down inside then im simply going to keep you from coming in in the first place and make sure you get that message clearly in a language you can understand.
As for diffirential treatment in public im of the same mind as Rutt when he talks about the Japanese talking about you in front of you and being surprized when you can read a menu. Think about that one though...most people service based or hospitality businesses encouter are there for what, 2 weeks if not just the SuperStreet TAS tour? The VAST majority of foriegn interaction is with people who not only dont know the language, but never will care to try and learn for there short stay. As for gaijin that wish to stay there for an extended period of time or even live in the country I once again refer to mexicans. How many of us really wish they would learn to speak the language and drive with insurance?
Honestly I love what I have learned about the culture and the fact that I know there are alot of customs and practices that are offensive or done out of simple curtasy, and I plan on visiting Japan as often as I can, I make the effort to learn those. Mostly so that I dont offend, its the last thing I ever want to do with anyone. I look at my attitude as being considerate of there culture. Will I ever be "accepted". Probably not. Will I manage to make a small group of friends I can feel comfortable around, enjoy and share life with. I think so, and thats all I really need.
Like much else in Japan. Learn to live your life and enjoy it to the full and stay out of other peoples way so they can do the same. If you step out of line, realize there has been a way of life established long before you ever came along and much like a child getting told he or she is wrong by his parent, we dont have to like it. Just make the appology and move on.
Just my $.02
He is a person who is more racialy consious than I am so those points easily stand out to him. For me (who helps run a night spot) I try to give people alot of chances and try and work with people to make sure they arent too druk or a girl pushes a guy because he said something stupid or put his hands somewhere he hasnt. However you will NEVER be able to make those decisions if a person cant speak the same language.
For instance...
Ive also spent alot of time in Mexican dances and I keep myself to my little crew and made sure I learned every way to say excuse me and im sorry before I went in and I used them frequently. Another thing I learned in those spots is that the Mexicans have a habbit of either getting too drunk or high on blow and starting fights or hitting too hard on, or just plain hitting chicks. Breaking beer bottles and stabbing people and tires. Now thats my personal experiance. What do you think is the first thing on my mind if a lone mexicano or worse still a group of 3 or 5 walk thru my door?
My point is exactly the same as JT-Imports, if you cant read my rules or understand my direction when I try and calmn you down inside then im simply going to keep you from coming in in the first place and make sure you get that message clearly in a language you can understand.
As for diffirential treatment in public im of the same mind as Rutt when he talks about the Japanese talking about you in front of you and being surprized when you can read a menu. Think about that one though...most people service based or hospitality businesses encouter are there for what, 2 weeks if not just the SuperStreet TAS tour? The VAST majority of foriegn interaction is with people who not only dont know the language, but never will care to try and learn for there short stay. As for gaijin that wish to stay there for an extended period of time or even live in the country I once again refer to mexicans. How many of us really wish they would learn to speak the language and drive with insurance?
Honestly I love what I have learned about the culture and the fact that I know there are alot of customs and practices that are offensive or done out of simple curtasy, and I plan on visiting Japan as often as I can, I make the effort to learn those. Mostly so that I dont offend, its the last thing I ever want to do with anyone. I look at my attitude as being considerate of there culture. Will I ever be "accepted". Probably not. Will I manage to make a small group of friends I can feel comfortable around, enjoy and share life with. I think so, and thats all I really need.
Like much else in Japan. Learn to live your life and enjoy it to the full and stay out of other peoples way so they can do the same. If you step out of line, realize there has been a way of life established long before you ever came along and much like a child getting told he or she is wrong by his parent, we dont have to like it. Just make the appology and move on.
Just my $.02
12-08-06, 01:52 PM
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Guys, guys! This subject really is border line with politics and religion. It's been going on long before any of us have been around and it goes on everywhere in the world. I've been to 10 countries and every one of them has had one form or another of racism. Hell.....I see it going on in this very page, eg; the crack about military walking in places in a t-shirt and jeans is so very true. I'm in the military and I see it a lot but, I'm not one of those military guys (own a bunch of suits actually). One of my suits even has medals and rank which I wear with much prestige. I also know a lot of other military guys who act in a responsible manner so you see......another twist on racism or in general, stereotyping.
A lot of good points from everyone but your pretty much "preaching to the Pope" on this subject....everyone being the "Pope" here. So I think racism isn't world wide, it's individual. You just have to dig inside yourself and say, "am I going to act, bahave, and think in this pisspoor manner or am I going to go my own way, and do what's right even when the only one your going to affect is you and the ones around you on a day to day basis.
That there is my 7 CENTs...get it?....7 CENTS! It's also the name of my race team! Brilliant!
A lot of good points from everyone but your pretty much "preaching to the Pope" on this subject....everyone being the "Pope" here. So I think racism isn't world wide, it's individual. You just have to dig inside yourself and say, "am I going to act, bahave, and think in this pisspoor manner or am I going to go my own way, and do what's right even when the only one your going to affect is you and the ones around you on a day to day basis.
That there is my 7 CENTs...get it?....7 CENTS! It's also the name of my race team! Brilliant!
12-08-06, 03:09 PM
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NeilTII---yeah I hear ya. I think i brought this subject up on here about 4 years ago though.
Its just like the start of african Americans in the, its 100000000% the samething. Some people didnt care but the majority did, and in Japan still does.
Havent you ever heard socially Japan is 30-40 years behind the US? I heard it many times since the first day I came to Japan which was May of 1995. They are coming along, but since economy and social isues were problem then is slowed progress, but as we can all see in or out of Japan, its trying to become a more popular name, and more and more US companies going there and Japanese to here, so its changing, BUT!!!!!!!!!!! Its still very much alive especially in Tokyo I have lived it and my Japanese wife has seen it, im looking forward to a more social outcome in Japan. It would be a KICKASS place to visit for all foreigners then.
Nuff said!
Peace out
J
Its just like the start of african Americans in the, its 100000000% the samething. Some people didnt care but the majority did, and in Japan still does.
Havent you ever heard socially Japan is 30-40 years behind the US? I heard it many times since the first day I came to Japan which was May of 1995. They are coming along, but since economy and social isues were problem then is slowed progress, but as we can all see in or out of Japan, its trying to become a more popular name, and more and more US companies going there and Japanese to here, so its changing, BUT!!!!!!!!!!! Its still very much alive especially in Tokyo I have lived it and my Japanese wife has seen it, im looking forward to a more social outcome in Japan. It would be a KICKASS place to visit for all foreigners then.
Nuff said!
Peace out
J
12-08-06, 08:58 PM
#14
Im really glad I read this thread. Its a good start to learning what should and shouldnt be expected in Japan. There should be a nice sticky about going to japan, kinda like a FAQ of what to and what not to do for first timers since this is the Far East section. I know a huge percentage of people on this forum would love to travel to Japan since its the homeland to all of our addictions. Good reading.
12-19-06, 07:50 PM
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I wouldnt blame if most all the east side of the world had signs as such... I live in the U.S. but I hate it there is much racistism just most people pretend to not notice.
The U.S.A is only getting what it's done to other country's just in a lighter punishment.
I have the deepest hate for .... it runs in my blood from what soilders from other countries do to the people of my country...
I'm to a point where I wouldnt speak to a girl if she were dating a differ ....
all I learn in school in the USA is how great the USA is "trying to help people" or what not you never hear the **** that's really happening
guess what im trying to say is
you people now suffer from the **** that your elders have done.
And no not everyone thats a certain race is bad,
The U.S.A is only getting what it's done to other country's just in a lighter punishment.
I have the deepest hate for .... it runs in my blood from what soilders from other countries do to the people of my country...
I'm to a point where I wouldnt speak to a girl if she were dating a differ ....
all I learn in school in the USA is how great the USA is "trying to help people" or what not you never hear the **** that's really happening
guess what im trying to say is
you people now suffer from the **** that your elders have done.
And no not everyone thats a certain race is bad,
12-20-06, 12:03 AM
#17
didn't really realize this was an old thread, but this stuck out to me
I don't understand #7.
for 4 and 9, what are you supposed to do? Just suck it up and pay? Is it because it's a faux pas to look like a cheapskate?
Originally Posted by eric e
4. arguing about the $5 entree on the restaurant bill that you didn't order
7. pulling the plug and letting all the water out after having a bath, private house
9. demanding a business reduce it's charges because an individual who works for the business made a mistake
7. pulling the plug and letting all the water out after having a bath, private house
9. demanding a business reduce it's charges because an individual who works for the business made a mistake
for 4 and 9, what are you supposed to do? Just suck it up and pay? Is it because it's a faux pas to look like a cheapskate?
01-02-07, 06:54 PM
#20
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every country i've been in
(and that's somewhere north of 25..i mean luxemborg is a principality not a country, and who knows what leichenstein and antartica are considered)
has it's own special set of unwritten laws that the natives use to see who's IN and who's OUT
just like the slang/jargon etc that you find on lists like this
"is the lsd on my series 3 jdm fd suitable for 400rwhp and 10sec quarters?"
one of the sharpest things you can do in a new country/place of work etc. is sit back and try to work out those laws as quickly as possible
that's what we are talking about here, doing so shows that you "repect" people and understand that you are a guest etc.
anyway back to 4,7,9
4. arguing about the $5 entree on the restaurant bill that you didn't order
7. pulling the plug and letting all the water out after having a bath, private house
9. demanding a business reduce it's charges because an individual who works for the business made a mistake
I don't understand #7.
for 4 and 9, what are you supposed to do? Just suck it up and pay? Is it because it's a faux pas to look like a cheapskate?
4. izakaiya, which are traditional style japanese pubs, often have a sneaky seating charge which is disguised as a small entree put at each seat as soon as you sit down. often a small bowl of some half fermented beans in seaweed
you don't ask for it but you get it and are charge for it
complaining about it is a bit like taking your own wine to a byo restaurant and then complaining about the corkage charge
7. in japan, where water and energy costs are probably triple the usa, you are expected to fully wash BEFORE getting in the bath, which is just for warmth and relaxation
the whole family are expecting to use the same water and they
a) don't want you leaving your dirt in it
b) expect it to be clean, clear and warm for them to use next
9. this ties in a little with 4 and is a little rule i made for myself to help me understand japan
"all situations of conflict between the individual and the company shall be settled in favor of the company"
this is generally the opposite of the modern western way
so you get get true examples like in the west people who work in offices usually take home photocopy paper, pens, rubber bands etc for use at home
however in japan at the start of a school year all teachers are given a red pen and a black pen. when they run out of ink in the those pens they can exchange the old empty cartridge for a new cartridge but can not just ask for a new pen
tape, staplers, correction fluid etc they are expected to buy themselves
so if a company employee makes a mistake that costs the company money he is expected to refund the company or have his wages docked. most japanese understand this and as people always make mistakes nobody makes a fuss and apologies are enough
but mix in a pushy foreigner who demands a cash refund and the money ends up coming out of the japanese workers pocket and not the companies. because of this many japanese staff don't want to serve foreigners as any mistakes made (and language problems account for many) will mean they take home less pay AND look bad in front of boss and friends
but, grasshopper, there is space for all in this garden
even if it means sheltering beneath the blades of grass
and stay away from the crows
(and that's somewhere north of 25..i mean luxemborg is a principality not a country, and who knows what leichenstein and antartica are considered)
has it's own special set of unwritten laws that the natives use to see who's IN and who's OUT
just like the slang/jargon etc that you find on lists like this
"is the lsd on my series 3 jdm fd suitable for 400rwhp and 10sec quarters?"
one of the sharpest things you can do in a new country/place of work etc. is sit back and try to work out those laws as quickly as possible
that's what we are talking about here, doing so shows that you "repect" people and understand that you are a guest etc.
anyway back to 4,7,9
4. arguing about the $5 entree on the restaurant bill that you didn't order
7. pulling the plug and letting all the water out after having a bath, private house
9. demanding a business reduce it's charges because an individual who works for the business made a mistake
I don't understand #7.
for 4 and 9, what are you supposed to do? Just suck it up and pay? Is it because it's a faux pas to look like a cheapskate?
4. izakaiya, which are traditional style japanese pubs, often have a sneaky seating charge which is disguised as a small entree put at each seat as soon as you sit down. often a small bowl of some half fermented beans in seaweed
you don't ask for it but you get it and are charge for it
complaining about it is a bit like taking your own wine to a byo restaurant and then complaining about the corkage charge
7. in japan, where water and energy costs are probably triple the usa, you are expected to fully wash BEFORE getting in the bath, which is just for warmth and relaxation
the whole family are expecting to use the same water and they
a) don't want you leaving your dirt in it
b) expect it to be clean, clear and warm for them to use next
9. this ties in a little with 4 and is a little rule i made for myself to help me understand japan
"all situations of conflict between the individual and the company shall be settled in favor of the company"
this is generally the opposite of the modern western way
so you get get true examples like in the west people who work in offices usually take home photocopy paper, pens, rubber bands etc for use at home
however in japan at the start of a school year all teachers are given a red pen and a black pen. when they run out of ink in the those pens they can exchange the old empty cartridge for a new cartridge but can not just ask for a new pen
tape, staplers, correction fluid etc they are expected to buy themselves
so if a company employee makes a mistake that costs the company money he is expected to refund the company or have his wages docked. most japanese understand this and as people always make mistakes nobody makes a fuss and apologies are enough
but mix in a pushy foreigner who demands a cash refund and the money ends up coming out of the japanese workers pocket and not the companies. because of this many japanese staff don't want to serve foreigners as any mistakes made (and language problems account for many) will mean they take home less pay AND look bad in front of boss and friends
but, grasshopper, there is space for all in this garden
even if it means sheltering beneath the blades of grass
and stay away from the crows
01-17-07, 10:05 AM
#21
Rotary Freak
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Okinawa, Japan
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So what for an extra charge or so on the bill? It happens. I usually sit at the counter anyways, so that voids a table charge. Plus, my favorite Japanese word is "service". When somebody at the izakaya hands you a beer or a dish of food out of the blue with the comment of "service", I love that. Never happened to me in the U.S. The one place down the street from me where I'm a semi-regular treats me right. When the boss there is trying to come up with a new menu item, I'll be the guinea pig getting free food. Combine this with my bottle keep, it's a pretty good deal. Bottle keep? Try finding a place in the states that does that.
So it's no big deal to suck up a messed up item or two on the bill. I've argued it before only when it was completely wrong. But a few buck here or there? Let it slide.
As far as the bathwater thing.....I'm single. However, I do live in an apartment building. If somebody lets the water out of the tub too late at night, I'll hear it nice and loudly. Walls are pretty then here. Being a good neighbor goes a long way.
So it's no big deal to suck up a messed up item or two on the bill. I've argued it before only when it was completely wrong. But a few buck here or there? Let it slide.
As far as the bathwater thing.....I'm single. However, I do live in an apartment building. If somebody lets the water out of the tub too late at night, I'll hear it nice and loudly. Walls are pretty then here. Being a good neighbor goes a long way.
01-22-07, 02:04 AM
#22
Rotary Enthusiast
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Okayama - Japan
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Ive never had a problem getting in anywhere, but expect to be treated differently if you look different, even if you speak the language when you come here, especially in the south where i am.
Every country has some kind of right wing minority faction, in my neighborhood, we constantly had vans driving around shouting anti-foreigner slogans. Foreign citizens are all ways coping the blame for crime in society, when the majority is caused by Japanese people.
They don't know what racism is, they've never experienced it, they all look the same.
Even there knowledge of racism is not good, i work as a language teacher here, and many students wear **** Swartz stickers cause they think its cool, but when i ask them about it they don't know what it means, maybe they think its a Shinto symbol. Ive met university students who dont know who Hitler was, it can be a strange culture.
Even the term FOREIGNER would be a pretty racsist label to use in Australia where im from.
Every country has some kind of right wing minority faction, in my neighborhood, we constantly had vans driving around shouting anti-foreigner slogans. Foreign citizens are all ways coping the blame for crime in society, when the majority is caused by Japanese people.
They don't know what racism is, they've never experienced it, they all look the same.
Even there knowledge of racism is not good, i work as a language teacher here, and many students wear **** Swartz stickers cause they think its cool, but when i ask them about it they don't know what it means, maybe they think its a Shinto symbol. Ive met university students who dont know who Hitler was, it can be a strange culture.
Even the term FOREIGNER would be a pretty racsist label to use in Australia where im from.
Last edited by BigWillieStyles; 01-22-07 at 02:12 AM.
01-27-07, 12:31 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Jerk_Racer
So what for an extra charge or so on the bill? It happens. I usually sit at the counter anyways, so that voids a table charge. Plus, my favorite Japanese word is "service". When somebody at the izakaya hands you a beer or a dish of food out of the blue with the comment of "service", I love that. Never happened to me in the U.S. The one place down the street from me where I'm a semi-regular treats me right. When the boss there is trying to come up with a new menu item, I'll be the guinea pig getting free food. Combine this with my bottle keep, it's a pretty good deal. Bottle keep? Try finding a place in the states that does that.
So it's no big deal to suck up a messed up item or two on the bill. I've argued it before only when it was completely wrong. But a few buck here or there? Let it slide.
As far as the bathwater thing.....I'm single. However, I do live in an apartment building. If somebody lets the water out of the tub too late at night, I'll hear it nice and loudly. Walls are pretty then here. Being a good neighbor goes a long way.
So it's no big deal to suck up a messed up item or two on the bill. I've argued it before only when it was completely wrong. But a few buck here or there? Let it slide.
As far as the bathwater thing.....I'm single. However, I do live in an apartment building. If somebody lets the water out of the tub too late at night, I'll hear it nice and loudly. Walls are pretty then here. Being a good neighbor goes a long way.
do you mind if i ask you , around how much your appartment costs you ??? like the rent+whatever extras+1 week grocery, cause ill probably be moving there within the next 3 years with 2 friends. (i already have a lot of $$ saved & my dad has friends there.) so im trying to gather the more informations i can, i even started to learn Japanese.
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