European Lounge: hijack thread!
03-20-03, 08:15 AM
#252
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Originally posted by OC94Rx7
Bart, I was just wondering where you heard this. That Powell said the evidence was fake?? Do you have a link or did you see it on tv?
Thanks
Bart, I was just wondering where you heard this. That Powell said the evidence was fake?? Do you have a link or did you see it on tv?
Thanks
After being under serious pressure Powell admit that the evidence in the nukes case (papers proving Iraq bought that stuff/tried to buy in Nigeria) were fake. He also tried to save his face by saying it was not the US who faked them, but they had gotten them from somewhere, and believed that source was serious.
Over here it was very clear from then on that whatever would happen, America would atack Iraq. Since today they proved us right
This story was to be read in several Belgian papers, not all of them are supporting the Belgian attitude on Iraq, so it was not propaganda. Our papers aren't as "patriotic" (=blinded) as US ones...
Not that it all matters. Since tonight the bombs are falling, killing too many innocent people for the sake of oil
Yet Bush said that the USA is there to free the people of Iraq??? I suppose Bin Laden said the same on 9/11...
03-20-03, 08:16 AM
#253
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Originally posted by Kim
uhh ohh here we go again
uhh ohh here we go again
It's time to support our opinion! Especially on the European Forum, as we have a majority here
03-20-03, 08:42 AM
#254
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Dont worry, I'm here too.....someone has to stand up for proper thinking, intelligence, and free will/thought 
I'm still amazed to how easily people believe what anyone will tell them, as long as its a) flattering, b) patriotic, or c) compliment. I know compliment and flattering seem almost identical, but they are not....
Anyway, I read the "speech" that Bush made about the attack. "The hopes and freedom of an entire planet depend on you" (addressing the US soldiers)
I mean, COME ON.........Whats this, the Middle Ages, and Bush is off to the Crusades ?
Simply because he wants (or other people want) cheaper -or free- oil, does not mean that we have to believe every little bullshit that comes out of his mouth....
Anyway, no point of talking any more, actions have been taken already, and nothing we can do about it......might as well sit back, watch, and hope this stupid "war" ends quickly, painlessly, and with as few casualties as possible
I'm still amazed to how easily people believe what anyone will tell them, as long as its a) flattering, b) patriotic, or c) compliment. I know compliment and flattering seem almost identical, but they are not....
Anyway, I read the "speech" that Bush made about the attack. "The hopes and freedom of an entire planet depend on you" (addressing the US soldiers)
I mean, COME ON.........Whats this, the Middle Ages, and Bush is off to the Crusades ? Simply because he wants (or other people want) cheaper -or free- oil, does not mean that we have to believe every little bullshit that comes out of his mouth....
Anyway, no point of talking any more, actions have been taken already, and nothing we can do about it......might as well sit back, watch, and hope this stupid "war" ends quickly, painlessly, and with as few casualties as possible
03-20-03, 01:39 PM
#256
OBEY YOUR MAZDA
Originally posted by rotary emotions
Hey Kim, you are not backing out are you?
It's time to support our opinion! Especially on the European Forum, as we have a majority here
Hey Kim, you are not backing out are you?
It's time to support our opinion! Especially on the European Forum, as we have a majority here
03-20-03, 03:47 PM
#257
_________________________
Thanks for the info Bart. I was doing some back reading on this thread and had not heard anything "from what you stated" about Powell. It must of come out while I was on my ski holiday? not sure.
I have another question? oh no! jumping into the fire. Since the US has stated it is going after Saddam. Let's say, at sometime during the war Saddam uses chemical warfare (he said he does not have it anymore) would your veiws change about the war?
Without going it to Bush bashing because, I have heard it all and don't care much for him as our President anyway. I know there are other issues about this war. But, I would like to hear what your feelings are on the issue...chemical warefare.
Thanks Guys
I have another question? oh no! jumping into the fire. Since the US has stated it is going after Saddam. Let's say, at sometime during the war Saddam uses chemical warfare (he said he does not have it anymore) would your veiws change about the war?
Without going it to Bush bashing because, I have heard it all and don't care much for him as our President anyway. I know there are other issues about this war. But, I would like to hear what your feelings are on the issue...chemical warefare.
Thanks Guys
03-20-03, 04:06 PM
#260
Czech Army does have Chemical unit (about 200 guys or so) going or already in middle east.....
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/36700
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/36700
Last edited by hIGGI; 03-20-03 at 04:12 PM.
03-20-03, 05:15 PM
#262
IMHO
a) he does not have it
b) if he does have it, he will use it
He is not fanatic, but if he will be pushed into corner, he will use whatever he will have. And i would understand it. Its not gonna be fair, but what is in this situation?
If someone will push me into situation when i`ll have no other choice, i`ll use everything i`ll be able to....thats how most of ppl would react i think.
a) he does not have it
b) if he does have it, he will use it
He is not fanatic, but if he will be pushed into corner, he will use whatever he will have. And i would understand it. Its not gonna be fair, but what is in this situation?
If someone will push me into situation when i`ll have no other choice, i`ll use everything i`ll be able to....thats how most of ppl would react i think.
03-21-03, 02:38 AM
#263
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Yesterday there was this article in a Greek newspaper comparing the armed forces of the two sides: USA/UK and Iraq.
As it is the ground forces of Iraq greatly outnumber the united forces of USA and UK, but their battle vehicles (from simple transporters to tanks) are somewhat old, and not up to specs with the modern vehicles of the US.
On the other hand, the air forces of the US vastly overpower those of Iraq, so the air strikes will go pretty much unopposed. So as long as the US forces remain in the air, this war will count only casualties from the Iraqi side. But, as anyone who has been in the Army know, you cannot win a war by air. You have to go in by ground forces. And this is where Iraq will put up a fight indeed.
However, I do agree that, if Saddam indeed has "serious" weapons (i.e biological, chemical, or even nuclear, which I VERY MUCH doubt), and he is also cornered, I dont think he will have much of a choice: he will try to take down with him as much of the opposition as possible
As it is the ground forces of Iraq greatly outnumber the united forces of USA and UK, but their battle vehicles (from simple transporters to tanks) are somewhat old, and not up to specs with the modern vehicles of the US.
On the other hand, the air forces of the US vastly overpower those of Iraq, so the air strikes will go pretty much unopposed. So as long as the US forces remain in the air, this war will count only casualties from the Iraqi side. But, as anyone who has been in the Army know, you cannot win a war by air. You have to go in by ground forces. And this is where Iraq will put up a fight indeed.
However, I do agree that, if Saddam indeed has "serious" weapons (i.e biological, chemical, or even nuclear, which I VERY MUCH doubt), and he is also cornered, I dont think he will have much of a choice: he will try to take down with him as much of the opposition as possible
03-21-03, 02:40 AM
#264
OBEY YOUR MAZDA
Im sure that he has some chemical weapons of some kind, if he tries to use those on either his own people or american/british troops, then i think that it is time to throw a Ghadaffi on him(bomb HIM) It sure worked on Ghadaffi when his stephson died. But im pretty sure that Sodamn Insane couldnt care less if a family member died in The Second Golf War
He has a HUGE ego and that only makes him more unpredictable.
He has a HUGE ego and that only makes him more unpredictable.
03-21-03, 08:34 AM
#265
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Well, my opinion in that a preventive war is very dangerous thing. You cannot fight someone because of something "he could do". Right now it is obvious Iraq did not have the power to attack the USA, nor any of it's neighbour countries. The moment Iraq would have prepared for an attack it would have been seen, so imo this war was not neccessary.
Nevertheless, let's asume he has chemical weapons.
First part of the answer here lies in the US led coalition. In both Afganistan and Iraq Rumsfeld clearly stated all means of war were open, and he did not exlude nuclear weapons. In Afganistan the US did not use these because they felt te impact on the public opinion would be to big. Yet plans were there. The USA has a very agressive history, using all those weapons they blame Sadam to have. (remember agent Orange in Vietnam)
If Sadam has these weapons, he will use them. That'd be logic. If he doesn't use them on the armies that attack him, he wouldn't have needed them in the first place. Would this change my mind? Not sure... The way I feel is a bit like "let them who are without sins throw the first stone". America has biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and will use those when "needed". If they can, so can everybody else.
Now, if he doesn't use these weapons, he does not have them. If, after taking Iraq, the USA shows us chemical, biological or nuclear weapons that thay found, DO NOT BELIEVE them. Sadam HAS NOTHING TO LOSE! So obviously, if he is as evil as they say (which he probable is) he would not leave such weapons unused.
If he doesn't use them, and they still are found, I am very sure it'll be yet another propaganda act. Remember that now the war started any information you get is "colored". Either Iraq gaves us THEIR info or the USA gives us THEIRS. Right now there is no way we can trust the things we hear/see. I remeber the first Gulf war, and all the things on the news (CNN was a first class propaganda machine). After the war only very few people looked further then their nose was long. Yet many of the things said during the war turned out to be pure lies!!! This goes for both camps.
So would I change my opinion: probable not. I believe a war without UN agrement is a crime. If the USA can lead a war without the UN, anyone else can aswell. There are no rules, if the biggest players do not keep by them. Bush has destroyed a very fragile balance, which will have serious impact on the world, especially Europe.
It will also trigger terrorism, etc.
I'm still convinced that Bush should be disarmed too.
However, it is Blair and Aznar who make me most angry. They refuse to listen to their people, who do not support a war. To me they are dictators, and a danger for the European union. They are sending their people into a war (some will die) yet have no support for this war from their people.
If I was an iraqi or north korean men, I'd become a terrorist... Bush Blair and Aznar asked for it...
War is always made by idiots from their seats, yet young men have to die. Not for freedom. For economics. To make the war industry turn. Remember Hitler, and then look at Bush. Spot the seven differences...
A sad child of madness, they'll never be free
Born again to die, the agonless begin
And soldiers keep coming like warriors they die
But gangland's alive when mothers cry
'Cause hate's blind addictions, a killing machine
And it burns on the fuel of shattered lives- lost child, lost child
Nevertheless, let's asume he has chemical weapons.
First part of the answer here lies in the US led coalition. In both Afganistan and Iraq Rumsfeld clearly stated all means of war were open, and he did not exlude nuclear weapons. In Afganistan the US did not use these because they felt te impact on the public opinion would be to big. Yet plans were there. The USA has a very agressive history, using all those weapons they blame Sadam to have. (remember agent Orange in Vietnam)
If Sadam has these weapons, he will use them. That'd be logic. If he doesn't use them on the armies that attack him, he wouldn't have needed them in the first place. Would this change my mind? Not sure... The way I feel is a bit like "let them who are without sins throw the first stone". America has biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and will use those when "needed". If they can, so can everybody else.
Now, if he doesn't use these weapons, he does not have them. If, after taking Iraq, the USA shows us chemical, biological or nuclear weapons that thay found, DO NOT BELIEVE them. Sadam HAS NOTHING TO LOSE! So obviously, if he is as evil as they say (which he probable is) he would not leave such weapons unused.
If he doesn't use them, and they still are found, I am very sure it'll be yet another propaganda act. Remember that now the war started any information you get is "colored". Either Iraq gaves us THEIR info or the USA gives us THEIRS. Right now there is no way we can trust the things we hear/see. I remeber the first Gulf war, and all the things on the news (CNN was a first class propaganda machine). After the war only very few people looked further then their nose was long. Yet many of the things said during the war turned out to be pure lies!!! This goes for both camps.
So would I change my opinion: probable not. I believe a war without UN agrement is a crime. If the USA can lead a war without the UN, anyone else can aswell. There are no rules, if the biggest players do not keep by them. Bush has destroyed a very fragile balance, which will have serious impact on the world, especially Europe.
It will also trigger terrorism, etc.
I'm still convinced that Bush should be disarmed too.
However, it is Blair and Aznar who make me most angry. They refuse to listen to their people, who do not support a war. To me they are dictators, and a danger for the European union. They are sending their people into a war (some will die) yet have no support for this war from their people.
If I was an iraqi or north korean men, I'd become a terrorist... Bush Blair and Aznar asked for it...
War is always made by idiots from their seats, yet young men have to die. Not for freedom. For economics. To make the war industry turn. Remember Hitler, and then look at Bush. Spot the seven differences...
A sad child of madness, they'll never be free
Born again to die, the agonless begin
And soldiers keep coming like warriors they die
But gangland's alive when mothers cry
'Cause hate's blind addictions, a killing machine
And it burns on the fuel of shattered lives- lost child, lost child
03-21-03, 03:07 PM
#266
OBEY YOUR MAZDA
Not all americans has tunnelvision when it comes to insight on the war...
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=168830
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=168830
03-22-03, 07:22 AM
#267
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Just for your (the European forum) information:
Some victims of Gulf War I want to get old Bush, Colin Powell, Cheney and Schwarzkopf on trial. Reason: crimes against humanity. In Belgium we have a law that alows victims to put charges against such crimes in Belgium, even if the crimes were not commited in Belgium, even if the person who commited them isn't Belgian. Now obviously none of these people is going to appear in court, nor will they get convicted. Our governement want's to weaken this law a lot, as it is giving us some problems (!) internationaly ;-)
But it draws attention to cases.
So here's the point:
During Gulf War I the USA used so called DU (depleted uranium) amunition. In fact this is enriched uranium, and actually nuclear waste (!). These bullets (nicknamed silver bullets) are about the size of a cigar and weigh 9 kilos! Simply their own kinetic energy when dropped from a plane or shoot is enough to enter a tank. No explosions needed. Temperatures inside that vehicle will rise to upto 70.000°C, often causing the amo carried to self-detonate. Up to now nothing too special.
However, because of these attacks a lot DU dust gets in the air. Radio-activity is high, very high in the Basra area where these things were used. It will take 4.500.000.000 years(count the zeros!) until the radioactivity has halved! The dust has entered the ecosystem. Causing the number of cancercases to multiply by 8!
Children are born with terrible conditions. Pictures of the children in the hospital will make you think...
This is clearly a act against humanity. A crime as awful as what the USA tells us about Sadam.
Of course the White house and Pentagon deny this. They claim the radioactivity of the silver bullets is low, and not dangerous. Independent research has proven their lies... And what's more: even US and British soldiers are dying from this. This is called the Gulf-syndrom. It was first explained as chemical attacks from Iraq, but has now been proved (outside the US of course) result of the US-attacks. A lot of Gulf war veterans have developed cancer, or their wives gave birth to kids that were misformed (no arms, no legs...)
In the UK about 500 veterans have died since they returned, 190 being suicide (!), so obviously these people must have seen things that are not healthy.
I cannot go into all details here, but let me say: Bush sr, Powell (then boss of the Army) and Cheney (defense minister) are guilty of crimes against humanity, and deserve to be imprisoned. They are no better then Sadam, or Milosovic for that matter...
Some victims of Gulf War I want to get old Bush, Colin Powell, Cheney and Schwarzkopf on trial. Reason: crimes against humanity. In Belgium we have a law that alows victims to put charges against such crimes in Belgium, even if the crimes were not commited in Belgium, even if the person who commited them isn't Belgian. Now obviously none of these people is going to appear in court, nor will they get convicted. Our governement want's to weaken this law a lot, as it is giving us some problems (!) internationaly ;-)
But it draws attention to cases.
So here's the point:
During Gulf War I the USA used so called DU (depleted uranium) amunition. In fact this is enriched uranium, and actually nuclear waste (!). These bullets (nicknamed silver bullets) are about the size of a cigar and weigh 9 kilos! Simply their own kinetic energy when dropped from a plane or shoot is enough to enter a tank. No explosions needed. Temperatures inside that vehicle will rise to upto 70.000°C, often causing the amo carried to self-detonate. Up to now nothing too special.
However, because of these attacks a lot DU dust gets in the air. Radio-activity is high, very high in the Basra area where these things were used. It will take 4.500.000.000 years(count the zeros!) until the radioactivity has halved! The dust has entered the ecosystem. Causing the number of cancercases to multiply by 8!
Children are born with terrible conditions. Pictures of the children in the hospital will make you think...
This is clearly a act against humanity. A crime as awful as what the USA tells us about Sadam.
Of course the White house and Pentagon deny this. They claim the radioactivity of the silver bullets is low, and not dangerous. Independent research has proven their lies... And what's more: even US and British soldiers are dying from this. This is called the Gulf-syndrom. It was first explained as chemical attacks from Iraq, but has now been proved (outside the US of course) result of the US-attacks. A lot of Gulf war veterans have developed cancer, or their wives gave birth to kids that were misformed (no arms, no legs...)
In the UK about 500 veterans have died since they returned, 190 being suicide (!), so obviously these people must have seen things that are not healthy.
I cannot go into all details here, but let me say: Bush sr, Powell (then boss of the Army) and Cheney (defense minister) are guilty of crimes against humanity, and deserve to be imprisoned. They are no better then Sadam, or Milosovic for that matter...
03-22-03, 12:04 PM
#268
_________________________
Bart, If you decide that you would like to stay at my house on the way to Sweden?. First the rules...........
1. Your not allowed to talk about Mr BUSH!
unless he's making another dumb speech, then I will change the channel anyway.
2. You will be checked for any weapons (RX7 too) before entering the house (or base as we call it) and all the beer you bring will be closely watched by me..at all times.
3. Your car will be locked in my garage incase you try to make a quick get away!
4. I live in a white brick house with dark blue trim (my friends at work call it the WHITEHOUSE) and I will raise my Dads American flag that was given to him from the US Govt. after he past away. The raised flag will make it easy for you to find my home.
Still want to stay over?
oh ya..
5. number 4 is the only true statement.
1. Your not allowed to talk about Mr BUSH!
unless he's making another dumb speech, then I will change the channel anyway.2. You will be checked for any weapons (RX7 too) before entering the house (or base as we call it) and all the beer you bring will be closely watched by me..at all times.
3. Your car will be locked in my garage incase you try to make a quick get away!
4. I live in a white brick house with dark blue trim (my friends at work call it the WHITEHOUSE) and I will raise my Dads American flag that was given to him from the US Govt. after he past away. The raised flag will make it easy for you to find my home.
Still want to stay over?
oh ya..
5. number 4 is the only true statement.
03-22-03, 12:59 PM
#269
OBEY YOUR MAZDA
About the depleted uranium. Back in 1997 my brother in law was in yugoslavia, he drove from hungary to yugoslavia with military vehicles and ammonition for the danish forces.
A few years ago, some of the servicemen that were stationed the same place as he did, were getting wery ill and a few guys died from blood infections, i cant remember the exact terminology for this discease, even one of his fellow truckdriving buddys died.
He was heartbroken and didnt go to work for several weeks prior to the bloodtests, luckyly he was negative, as my sister and him just got a baby girl the year before,and even after it took him a while before he got back on his feets.
Point is that a lot of countrys uses depleted uranium, eventhough they have a nuclear stance against NC powerplants and such. Some years back the danish goverment denied an american warship of some kind, to dock in a danish harbor, because it was powered by nuclear energy. But they dont mind useing depleted uranium as weapons in a war eventhough they allready knows that it carries a health hazardous "charge".
A few years ago, some of the servicemen that were stationed the same place as he did, were getting wery ill and a few guys died from blood infections, i cant remember the exact terminology for this discease, even one of his fellow truckdriving buddys died.
He was heartbroken and didnt go to work for several weeks prior to the bloodtests, luckyly he was negative, as my sister and him just got a baby girl the year before,and even after it took him a while before he got back on his feets.
Point is that a lot of countrys uses depleted uranium, eventhough they have a nuclear stance against NC powerplants and such. Some years back the danish goverment denied an american warship of some kind, to dock in a danish harbor, because it was powered by nuclear energy. But they dont mind useing depleted uranium as weapons in a war eventhough they allready knows that it carries a health hazardous "charge".
03-22-03, 01:07 PM
#271
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Originally posted by OC94Rx7
Bart, If you decide that you would like to stay at my house on the way to Sweden?. First the rules...........
1. Your not allowed to talk about Mr BUSH! unless he's making another dumb speech, then I will change the channel anyway.
2. You will be checked for any weapons (RX7 too) before entering the house (or base as we call it) and all the beer you bring will be closely watched by me..at all times.
3. Your car will be locked in my garage incase you try to make a quick get away!
4. I live in a white brick house with dark blue trim (my friends at work call it the WHITEHOUSE) and I will raise my Dads American flag that was given to him from the US Govt. after he past away. The raised flag will make it easy for you to find my home.
Still want to stay over?
oh ya..
5. number 4 is the only true statement.
Bart, If you decide that you would like to stay at my house on the way to Sweden?. First the rules...........
1. Your not allowed to talk about Mr BUSH!
unless he's making another dumb speech, then I will change the channel anyway.2. You will be checked for any weapons (RX7 too) before entering the house (or base as we call it) and all the beer you bring will be closely watched by me..at all times.
3. Your car will be locked in my garage incase you try to make a quick get away!
4. I live in a white brick house with dark blue trim (my friends at work call it the WHITEHOUSE) and I will raise my Dads American flag that was given to him from the US Govt. after he past away. The raised flag will make it easy for you to find my home.
Still want to stay over?
oh ya..
5. number 4 is the only true statement.
2- I usualy don´t carry a lot of weapons, just a few rockets, and an UZI or two ;-)
3- Toucha me car and I´ll breaka ya face. I´m peacefull as long as people stay away from the seven :-)
4- Fine with me, I´m not anti American, just anti-stupid americans
5- Am I still welcome?
03-23-03, 12:50 PM
#273
_________________________
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rotary emotions
[B]
2- I usualy don´t carry a lot of weapons, just a few rockets, and an UZI or two ;-)
COOL:: MY BOYS LOVE ROCKETS!
5- Am I still welcome?
YUP!
[B]
2- I usualy don´t carry a lot of weapons, just a few rockets, and an UZI or two ;-)
COOL:: MY BOYS LOVE ROCKETS!
5- Am I still welcome?
YUP!
: