Sway Bars on the FC
04-29-09, 11:45 PM
#1
Sway Bars on the FC
Keep? Remove? Upgrade? Benefits/downsides on each option?
Car Setup:
S4 GTU
Stance GR+ (9/7)
RB DTSS Elminators
SuperNow Sublink
Strut Bars (F&R)
Reason I ask is because my FC still snaps a bit when I transfer (even with the dampening on full soft). I've heard removing sway bars will fix this, but don't know what the good and the bad is.
I DD my car and drift/gymkhana a fair bit, so if removing the sway bars is unsafe or whatever for DD then I'll just put up with it. If not, then post away. 
Car Setup:
S4 GTU
Stance GR+ (9/7)
RB DTSS Elminators
SuperNow Sublink
Strut Bars (F&R)
Reason I ask is because my FC still snaps a bit when I transfer (even with the dampening on full soft). I've heard removing sway bars will fix this, but don't know what the good and the bad is.
I DD my car and drift/gymkhana a fair bit, so if removing the sway bars is unsafe or whatever for DD then I'll just put up with it. If not, then post away.
04-30-09, 09:24 AM
#3
Senior Member
I would leave sway bars alone personally. I don't like upgraded sway bars. I have driven cars with no sway bar in the front and could deal with that more than a bigger one in front.
the snap you are experiencing could be caused by a myriad of things. At what point are you lifting the throttle? How much speed and what points are you transfering for starters. Also what tire sizes are you using? Do you have a welded diff or a clutch type or open? FCs rotate on the center axis very rapidly......its natural so learn to anticipate it and use it to your advantage......... popping sideways instantly and making a long entry with it is a very beautiful thing something a 240 cannot do.
the snap you are experiencing could be caused by a myriad of things. At what point are you lifting the throttle? How much speed and what points are you transfering for starters. Also what tire sizes are you using? Do you have a welded diff or a clutch type or open? FCs rotate on the center axis very rapidly......its natural so learn to anticipate it and use it to your advantage......... popping sideways instantly and making a long entry with it is a very beautiful thing something a 240 cannot do.
04-30-09, 12:34 PM
#4
I would leave sway bars alone personally. I don't like upgraded sway bars. I have driven cars with no sway bar in the front and could deal with that more than a bigger one in front.
the snap you are experiencing could be caused by a myriad of things. At what point are you lifting the throttle? How much speed and what points are you transfering for starters. Also what tire sizes are you using? Do you have a welded diff or a clutch type or open? FCs rotate on the center axis very rapidly......its natural so learn to anticipate it and use it to your advantage......... popping sideways instantly and making a long entry with it is a very beautiful thing something a 240 cannot do.
the snap you are experiencing could be caused by a myriad of things. At what point are you lifting the throttle? How much speed and what points are you transfering for starters. Also what tire sizes are you using? Do you have a welded diff or a clutch type or open? FCs rotate on the center axis very rapidly......its natural so learn to anticipate it and use it to your advantage......... popping sideways instantly and making a long entry with it is a very beautiful thing something a 240 cannot do.
I havent tried drifting with that size tire (I DD 17s) and the camber adjustment so that might work. My Diff is the stock clutch type, I usaully ebrak to initiate...
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04-30-09, 03:16 PM
#8
Alot of race guys remove the rear bar. This is from a very reliable friend of mine
"FC's trailing arm setup, for one reason or another, doesn't react too well when you use a sway bar for roll stiffness... A lot of the "twitchiness" that people have, when driving FC's is exactly this. The trailing arms are a lot more reactive, and the rear end actually feels like its staying under you mid corner. I've been super impressed with this set up... took a little getting used to, for obvious reasons, but now I feel a lot more confident in the cars ability to recover, rather than the snap oversteer that FC's are known for...
Pretty much all the road race guys have told me about taking off the sway bar, and I was hesitant... but low and behold, it's true. They even tried the "speedway style" swaybars, and came up with the same conclusion..."
"FC's trailing arm setup, for one reason or another, doesn't react too well when you use a sway bar for roll stiffness... A lot of the "twitchiness" that people have, when driving FC's is exactly this. The trailing arms are a lot more reactive, and the rear end actually feels like its staying under you mid corner. I've been super impressed with this set up... took a little getting used to, for obvious reasons, but now I feel a lot more confident in the cars ability to recover, rather than the snap oversteer that FC's are known for...
Pretty much all the road race guys have told me about taking off the sway bar, and I was hesitant... but low and behold, it's true. They even tried the "speedway style" swaybars, and came up with the same conclusion..."
04-30-09, 03:21 PM
#9
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I have both sway bars removed as advised by a few top level drifters..
migrating from a 240 to an FC, I found it alot better.. but I didnt have much seat time with the sway bars on either for a comparison.
migrating from a 240 to an FC, I found it alot better.. but I didnt have much seat time with the sway bars on either for a comparison.
04-30-09, 05:05 PM
#11
And I know they don't.
04-30-09, 05:35 PM
#12
Springs don't make your chassis stiffer and strut bars don't do much. Think stitch welding, a real cage, adj lower arm bar, foam in the frame rails or auto exe braces. I'm gonna keep my rear bar for now and learn how to control the snap instead of downgrading the car to make up for a lack of seat time.
04-30-09, 07:59 PM
#13
Springs don't make your chassis stiffer and strut bars don't do much. Think stitch welding, a real cage, adj lower arm bar, foam in the frame rails or auto exe braces. I'm gonna keep my rear bar for now and learn how to control the snap instead of downgrading the car to make up for a lack of seat time.
05-01-09, 09:09 AM
#14
Senior Member
well once upon a time.........lol I had some JIC coilovers they were like 10k 9k if I remember correctly. At first I loved it because I was daily driving my car and it felt so solid and cornered fast as **** around town.
I took it to Hakone one night and just driving there at about 100 mph or so was scary because the car wanted to bounce around. This car had no cage, only front and rear tower bars, When I started drifting it would want to understeer and then bam oversteer. I am sure some of this was my crappy driving but still it sucked. Everyone who drove the car told me it was too stiff aka too fast and hard to control.
I looked into other coilover and bought a set of Cusco with like 8k 7k springs and to me it felt like mush but I got kinda used to it. It was actually better on the AutoX course though. Anyway soon I got a 4 point cage and it was much better then I came across a 8 point bolt in and Wow the suspension was great. Since the car wasn't flopping around the suspension could do its job.
My car now has full stitch weld, front rear towers, lower arm bar and 10 point cage etc.
This is just my experience. I am not going to buy into the take the sway bars off thing yet, though I have been tempted to try it.
My point is that stiff coilovers "feel" like the car is solid but really you are forcing more energy into the chassis making it flex more. Softer suspension will allow you more control in most situations especially bumpy areas.
I took it to Hakone one night and just driving there at about 100 mph or so was scary because the car wanted to bounce around. This car had no cage, only front and rear tower bars, When I started drifting it would want to understeer and then bam oversteer. I am sure some of this was my crappy driving but still it sucked. Everyone who drove the car told me it was too stiff aka too fast and hard to control.
I looked into other coilover and bought a set of Cusco with like 8k 7k springs and to me it felt like mush but I got kinda used to it. It was actually better on the AutoX course though. Anyway soon I got a 4 point cage and it was much better then I came across a 8 point bolt in and Wow the suspension was great. Since the car wasn't flopping around the suspension could do its job.
My car now has full stitch weld, front rear towers, lower arm bar and 10 point cage etc.
This is just my experience. I am not going to buy into the take the sway bars off thing yet, though I have been tempted to try it.
My point is that stiff coilovers "feel" like the car is solid but really you are forcing more energy into the chassis making it flex more. Softer suspension will allow you more control in most situations especially bumpy areas.
05-01-09, 11:54 AM
#15
Thanks for the info, this is only my second season drifting so I'm not that. I think I can order softer springs for my coilovers so I might look into some 8/6s, cause I dont have the money to spend on new ones. Maybe down the road I'll look into some Teins with the EDFC. It is really stiff, and I set my dampening at like 5/3 so I'm not evening using half the potential of the adjustment (Full hard is spin city). Thanks for all the info, I might look into an 8point bolt in.
05-03-09, 06:45 PM
#18
\\TRASHTALK//
well once upon a time.........lol I had some JIC coilovers they were like 10k 9k if I remember correctly. At first I loved it because I was daily driving my car and it felt so solid and cornered fast as **** around town.
I took it to Hakone one night and just driving there at about 100 mph or so was scary because the car wanted to bounce around. This car had no cage, only front and rear tower bars, When I started drifting it would want to understeer and then bam oversteer. I am sure some of this was my crappy driving but still it sucked. Everyone who drove the car told me it was too stiff aka too fast and hard to control.
I looked into other coilover and bought a set of Cusco with like 8k 7k springs and to me it felt like mush but I got kinda used to it. It was actually better on the AutoX course though. Anyway soon I got a 4 point cage and it was much better then I came across a 8 point bolt in and Wow the suspension was great. Since the car wasn't flopping around the suspension could do its job.
My car now has full stitch weld, front rear towers, lower arm bar and 10 point cage etc.
This is just my experience. I am not going to buy into the take the sway bars off thing yet, though I have been tempted to try it.
My point is that stiff coilovers "feel" like the car is solid but really you are forcing more energy into the chassis making it flex more. Softer suspension will allow you more control in most situations especially bumpy areas.
I took it to Hakone one night and just driving there at about 100 mph or so was scary because the car wanted to bounce around. This car had no cage, only front and rear tower bars, When I started drifting it would want to understeer and then bam oversteer. I am sure some of this was my crappy driving but still it sucked. Everyone who drove the car told me it was too stiff aka too fast and hard to control.
I looked into other coilover and bought a set of Cusco with like 8k 7k springs and to me it felt like mush but I got kinda used to it. It was actually better on the AutoX course though. Anyway soon I got a 4 point cage and it was much better then I came across a 8 point bolt in and Wow the suspension was great. Since the car wasn't flopping around the suspension could do its job.
My car now has full stitch weld, front rear towers, lower arm bar and 10 point cage etc.
This is just my experience. I am not going to buy into the take the sway bars off thing yet, though I have been tempted to try it.
My point is that stiff coilovers "feel" like the car is solid but really you are forcing more energy into the chassis making it flex more. Softer suspension will allow you more control in most situations especially bumpy areas.
05-04-09, 07:30 AM
#21
maybe im retarded but i think most of this info is pointless. Some of these mods people are suggesting you wont even notice until you are fully aware of how your car acts and moves.
sounds like the number one problem in your situation is lack of experience. I struggled with it myself for a long time. I personally think you should not mod your car around your own weak points to cover up your short comings. that just sounds dumb to me.
In my opinion you should try adjusting your technique before buying a bunch of random **** you dont need yet or at all.
Your car probably feels really unpredictable during transitions, right? My guess is that your coming to hot for your skill level and you are just not that " in tune" with your car yet. no big deal. my first bit of advice would definietly be to start counter steering the other direction much earlier. If you find you cant do that, it means your standing on the throttle too long. try lifting (just barely, not completely) of the throttle a little earlier than you are used to. Or you could also try very lightly tapping the brakes(not enough to slow the car down, just enough to light up the tailights) just before the transition. this way the suspension will gradually start to become unloaded earlier and more predictably on the way there instead of exploding in the opposite direction all at once as if you had waited longer. If you used the brake method it allows you to come in faster and stay on the throttle later but its harder to get the right amount of pedal pressure. Once you get that down youll probably notice your coming in a little slower than usual. But just keep practicing anyway. as you get more comfortable doing this you can start working on your entry speed again. You can try coming in much faster and letting off much earlier(harder to do) or you can work on staying on the throttle a little more each time until you find that you were comng in just as fast as before. By then you will probably be touching the braje during transitions like its second nature.
and im not claiming to be an awesome drifter but i have basics down. this is just my $.02 on what works for me. And im not trying to sound derogatory towards you. Its just my opinion on what i think would help you.
do work
sounds like the number one problem in your situation is lack of experience. I struggled with it myself for a long time. I personally think you should not mod your car around your own weak points to cover up your short comings. that just sounds dumb to me.
In my opinion you should try adjusting your technique before buying a bunch of random **** you dont need yet or at all.
Your car probably feels really unpredictable during transitions, right? My guess is that your coming to hot for your skill level and you are just not that " in tune" with your car yet. no big deal. my first bit of advice would definietly be to start counter steering the other direction much earlier. If you find you cant do that, it means your standing on the throttle too long. try lifting (just barely, not completely) of the throttle a little earlier than you are used to. Or you could also try very lightly tapping the brakes(not enough to slow the car down, just enough to light up the tailights) just before the transition. this way the suspension will gradually start to become unloaded earlier and more predictably on the way there instead of exploding in the opposite direction all at once as if you had waited longer. If you used the brake method it allows you to come in faster and stay on the throttle later but its harder to get the right amount of pedal pressure. Once you get that down youll probably notice your coming in a little slower than usual. But just keep practicing anyway. as you get more comfortable doing this you can start working on your entry speed again. You can try coming in much faster and letting off much earlier(harder to do) or you can work on staying on the throttle a little more each time until you find that you were comng in just as fast as before. By then you will probably be touching the braje during transitions like its second nature.
and im not claiming to be an awesome drifter but i have basics down. this is just my $.02 on what works for me. And im not trying to sound derogatory towards you. Its just my opinion on what i think would help you.
do work
05-04-09, 09:38 AM
#22
Senior Member
I would leave sway bars alone personally. I don't like upgraded sway bars. I have driven cars with no sway bar in the front and could deal with that more than a bigger one in front.
the snap you are experiencing could be caused by a myriad of things. At what point are you lifting the throttle? How much speed and what points are you transfering for starters. Also what tire sizes are you using? Do you have a welded diff or a clutch type or open? FCs rotate on the center axis very rapidly......its natural so learn to anticipate it and use it to your advantage......... popping sideways instantly and making a long entry with it is a very beautiful thing something a 240 cannot do.
the snap you are experiencing could be caused by a myriad of things. At what point are you lifting the throttle? How much speed and what points are you transfering for starters. Also what tire sizes are you using? Do you have a welded diff or a clutch type or open? FCs rotate on the center axis very rapidly......its natural so learn to anticipate it and use it to your advantage......... popping sideways instantly and making a long entry with it is a very beautiful thing something a 240 cannot do.
So yeah I agree with what you are saying but the information is not pointless.
A good car can make good and bad drivers perform better.
05-04-09, 12:08 PM
#23
maybe im retarded but i think most of this info is pointless. Some of these mods people are suggesting you wont even notice until you are fully aware of how your car acts and moves.
sounds like the number one problem in your situation is lack of experience. I struggled with it myself for a long time. I personally think you should not mod your car around your own weak points to cover up your short comings. that just sounds dumb to me.
In my opinion you should try adjusting your technique before buying a bunch of random **** you dont need yet or at all.
Your car probably feels really unpredictable during transitions, right? My guess is that your coming to hot for your skill level and you are just not that " in tune" with your car yet. no big deal. my first bit of advice would definietly be to start counter steering the other direction much earlier. If you find you cant do that, it means your standing on the throttle too long. try lifting (just barely, not completely) of the throttle a little earlier than you are used to. Or you could also try very lightly tapping the brakes(not enough to slow the car down, just enough to light up the tailights) just before the transition. this way the suspension will gradually start to become unloaded earlier and more predictably on the way there instead of exploding in the opposite direction all at once as if you had waited longer. If you used the brake method it allows you to come in faster and stay on the throttle later but its harder to get the right amount of pedal pressure. Once you get that down youll probably notice your coming in a little slower than usual. But just keep practicing anyway. as you get more comfortable doing this you can start working on your entry speed again. You can try coming in much faster and letting off much earlier(harder to do) or you can work on staying on the throttle a little more each time until you find that you were comng in just as fast as before. By then you will probably be touching the braje during transitions like its second nature.
and im not claiming to be an awesome drifter but i have basics down. this is just my $.02 on what works for me. And im not trying to sound derogatory towards you. Its just my opinion on what i think would help you.
do work
sounds like the number one problem in your situation is lack of experience. I struggled with it myself for a long time. I personally think you should not mod your car around your own weak points to cover up your short comings. that just sounds dumb to me.
In my opinion you should try adjusting your technique before buying a bunch of random **** you dont need yet or at all.
Your car probably feels really unpredictable during transitions, right? My guess is that your coming to hot for your skill level and you are just not that " in tune" with your car yet. no big deal. my first bit of advice would definietly be to start counter steering the other direction much earlier. If you find you cant do that, it means your standing on the throttle too long. try lifting (just barely, not completely) of the throttle a little earlier than you are used to. Or you could also try very lightly tapping the brakes(not enough to slow the car down, just enough to light up the tailights) just before the transition. this way the suspension will gradually start to become unloaded earlier and more predictably on the way there instead of exploding in the opposite direction all at once as if you had waited longer. If you used the brake method it allows you to come in faster and stay on the throttle later but its harder to get the right amount of pedal pressure. Once you get that down youll probably notice your coming in a little slower than usual. But just keep practicing anyway. as you get more comfortable doing this you can start working on your entry speed again. You can try coming in much faster and letting off much earlier(harder to do) or you can work on staying on the throttle a little more each time until you find that you were comng in just as fast as before. By then you will probably be touching the braje during transitions like its second nature.
and im not claiming to be an awesome drifter but i have basics down. this is just my $.02 on what works for me. And im not trying to sound derogatory towards you. Its just my opinion on what i think would help you.
do work
Ranzo: I'm looking into some softer coilovers, the stance coilovers I have now are giving me trouble after less than a year of use. Looking into Tein's. Probably Super Drifts.
05-05-09, 12:45 PM
#24
I still say you should give the sway removal a go. The worst that can happen at the track is you dont like it. 30 minutes of your time and they are back on......
After i got finished getting my suspension where i wanted it (driving, tweaking, driving, tweaking) basically to the point where drifting was childs play after initiating but without making the car too loose for daily driving and gripping i thought. "why did i overthink this soo much?"
Talk about **** less and do more work.
After i got finished getting my suspension where i wanted it (driving, tweaking, driving, tweaking) basically to the point where drifting was childs play after initiating but without making the car too loose for daily driving and gripping i thought. "why did i overthink this soo much?"
Talk about **** less and do more work.
