Rebuikd or swap? help im confused
02-11-11, 01:50 PM
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Rebuikd or swap? help im confused
Hello. I have a S5 T2 that need to be rebuilt. I love rotaries and want to start with a relatively lower powered car. It will cost about 5k with new Rotor housings oem seals fd side seal springs and a huge oil mod. Large street port. then I would get fuel management. Some other mods and then I want to go and get sideways. Anyway there is no guarenty that the engine will last under drift application and driving it to and from the events.
Here is the alternative i am thinking about.For a liittle more i can put in a 1 or 2jzgte. These engines are really strong from the factory. The cars behavior would change but i can learn to manage i suppose. This is the only swap i will consider. Even talking like this is taboo in the rotoary world. Im not much of a purist but i wouldnt usualy think about swaping a rotary out vs in. My mo is the drift. i want to get good at it and want this to last. 5k is a lot to spend for me. idk about you guys but im not rich. Lol
Any advice or suggestions would be great. Thanks guys.
Here is the alternative i am thinking about.For a liittle more i can put in a 1 or 2jzgte. These engines are really strong from the factory. The cars behavior would change but i can learn to manage i suppose. This is the only swap i will consider. Even talking like this is taboo in the rotoary world. Im not much of a purist but i wouldnt usualy think about swaping a rotary out vs in. My mo is the drift. i want to get good at it and want this to last. 5k is a lot to spend for me. idk about you guys but im not rich. Lol
Any advice or suggestions would be great. Thanks guys.
02-11-11, 02:28 PM
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It will cost 3Xs the price to do the swap. Build a reliable rotary setup(no need for new housings just get low mileage ones). You can do the rebuild with ALS or RA seals for around $2k and have a nice solid engine if you send it to the right shops. Dont over think it, you will have too much money in a car you are planning to beat the **** out of.
02-11-11, 02:59 PM
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It will cast about the same to do the swap. Ive looked onto it. im still not convinsed tho. Its not an rx without the 13bt in it. I will be a supra 7. sounds nice but saddening. still I want a good drift machine.
Last edited by Linguo415; 02-11-11 at 03:05 PM.
02-11-11, 03:18 PM
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If you're not doing the work yourself... have this conversation with the shop that is going to be doing it.
Show up with money, and **** will happen a lot faster.
Show up with no money, and you are wasting their time.
Show up with money, and **** will happen a lot faster.
Show up with no money, and you are wasting their time.
02-11-11, 03:35 PM
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It all comes down to proper setup and tuning. Sticking with a 13B is cheaper if you know how to rebuilt it. Just remember it cost 4x more if the piston motor decided to give up.
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02-11-11, 04:07 PM
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I am less then $700 into my LS1 after selling all the parts off the z28 camaro, and all my turbo 13b-re stuff. (Still have quite a few left I need to post on ebay lol.) You can save a bunch of money and go 5.3L also. The car doesn't act any different at all handling wise, just the neck snapping instantaneous power and the ability to break it lose on command. 
02-11-11, 04:57 PM
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^ opinions dont hold much truth. Im not into the v8 thing. 1j or 2jz is the only swap i would consider. Or 20b but thats way too much for me. Idk why you want a honda engine. but cool. Lol
02-11-11, 08:54 PM
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My cousin is into honda before I introduce him into rotary, he's faster and spend less now than before. If you want a 20B we can do it too and it's alot less than most people tell you.
02-11-11, 08:58 PM
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[QUOTE=TweakGames;10465386]Don't ask if you can't handle the truth. 
$10k for a honda motor, lol. Does it make me a sammich? Go pull a 5.3L out of a junk yard for $400 a pop.
The truth is that the "Joe Dirt Mullet" is out of style
The $10k honda will peel the sunburn out of your red neck. jk
$10k for a honda motor, lol. Does it make me a sammich? Go pull a 5.3L out of a junk yard for $400 a pop.The truth is that the "Joe Dirt Mullet" is out of style
The $10k honda will peel the sunburn out of your red neck. jk
02-11-11, 11:52 PM
#15
It will cost 3Xs the price to do the swap. Build a reliable rotary setup(no need for new housings just get low mileage ones). You can do the rebuild with ALS or RA seals for around $2k and have a nice solid engine if you send it to the right shops. Dont over think it, you will have too much money in a car you are planning to beat the **** out of.
$5k is way over priced for a stock rebuild. you don't NEED New Housings. sure it would be nice, but hey so would be having a 20b.
used housings/rotors are relatively easy to find. idk much about ALS seals, but before i went with the RA Super Seals, i was a rotary hater also contemplating swapping everyday. now my motor withstands all the abuse i throw at it (was built/tuned correctly as it is maintained well also)
i was/am thinking about doing a 1jz in a missile car FC and doing it halfassed, WHILE fabb'ing everything myself (mounts) it's @ $5k without engine management, turbo, good clutch ETC...
you have a motor. you dont need to source another, so give it one last, good attempt, and you'll be surprised with the outcome.
i have 2,500 miles on my motor that was broken in @ a Drift event, and has lived its entire life above 5k RPM's, and most of the time @ 7k rpms with 12psi boost on pump gas.
if you're in cali i can put you in touch with my builder/tuner who maintains my car during the pro-ams.
02-12-11, 12:07 AM
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seriously what he said^
$5k is way over priced for a stock rebuild. you don't NEED New Housings. sure it would be nice, but hey so would be having a 20b.
used housings/rotors are relatively easy to find. idk much about ALS seals, but before i went with the RA Super Seals, i was a rotary hater also contemplating swapping everyday. now my motor withstands all the abuse i throw at it (was built/tuned correctly as it is maintained well also)
i was/am thinking about doing a 1jz in a missile car FC and doing it halfassed, WHILE fabb'ing everything myself (mounts) it's @ $5k without engine management, turbo, good clutch ETC...
you have a motor. you dont need to source another, so give it one last, good attempt, and you'll be surprised with the outcome.
i have 2,500 miles on my motor that was broken in @ a Drift event, and has lived its entire life above 5k RPM's, and most of the time @ 7k rpms with 12psi boost on pump gas.
if you're in cali i can put you in touch with my builder/tuner who maintains my car during the pro-ams.
$5k is way over priced for a stock rebuild. you don't NEED New Housings. sure it would be nice, but hey so would be having a 20b.
used housings/rotors are relatively easy to find. idk much about ALS seals, but before i went with the RA Super Seals, i was a rotary hater also contemplating swapping everyday. now my motor withstands all the abuse i throw at it (was built/tuned correctly as it is maintained well also)
i was/am thinking about doing a 1jz in a missile car FC and doing it halfassed, WHILE fabb'ing everything myself (mounts) it's @ $5k without engine management, turbo, good clutch ETC...
you have a motor. you dont need to source another, so give it one last, good attempt, and you'll be surprised with the outcome.
i have 2,500 miles on my motor that was broken in @ a Drift event, and has lived its entire life above 5k RPM's, and most of the time @ 7k rpms with 12psi boost on pump gas.
if you're in cali i can put you in touch with my builder/tuner who maintains my car during the pro-ams.
02-12-11, 02:03 AM
#17
look into the Real World Solutions (RWS) Super Seals.
i have the 2mm cryogenically treated kit, with Race Spring upgrade.
generally if any seal gets ejected you'll need to replace a rotor housing, so you might as well get the stronger ones to help prevent it from happening in the first place. every motor i've blown was using either atkins, or OEM Mazda Apex/side seals. all of which i had to replace rotors/housings on.
The RWS Super Seal kit has done well for me this season, and i swear by them now. i've literally drifted OUT OF GAS and had my car shut off (gauge was bunk i guess) and the motor was @ Redline with 12/14psi, and it started right back up, and still throws down.
all the stock seal mazda motors i blew were turned spot on, and all blew up in less than a few days of building them. one didnt even make it 24hrs after the tune. (AFR's were cherry the entire time, with no symptoms at all) just spool - to lawnmower each time.
02-12-11, 09:15 AM
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here is my sales pitch for als and RA. I really cannot understand why ANYONE would ever build an engine with stock or stock type material apex seals in a race/performance turbo engine ever again.
when summer hits i will be starting season Five on my race motor... It is not an expencive build, -13b, stock balance, stock rotors, increased oil presure, RA seals, Atkins solid side seals, and a good street port. this motor saw two years in my road race car, then has spent the last two in my drift car. did a flashlight and dentist mirror inspection of rotor housings a few weeks ago and it is still MINT.
I personally have never used the als ones but i believe the companies with the unbreakable seals are the only way to go. I will be using some of theres soon.
NA street cars are the only engines i would use stock seals in. We can have the full apex seal debate but the negatives of the Hard/Un breakable seals are WAY less than the negatives of the fragile stock/stock ish seals... my 2c build a rotory right and you will love it.
when summer hits i will be starting season Five on my race motor... It is not an expencive build, -13b, stock balance, stock rotors, increased oil presure, RA seals, Atkins solid side seals, and a good street port. this motor saw two years in my road race car, then has spent the last two in my drift car. did a flashlight and dentist mirror inspection of rotor housings a few weeks ago and it is still MINT.
I personally have never used the als ones but i believe the companies with the unbreakable seals are the only way to go. I will be using some of theres soon.
NA street cars are the only engines i would use stock seals in. We can have the full apex seal debate but the negatives of the Hard/Un breakable seals are WAY less than the negatives of the fragile stock/stock ish seals... my 2c build a rotory right and you will love it.
02-12-11, 10:23 AM
#21
seriously^ glad to see another coherent post regarding good seals.
idk why people use oem seals and try to put them through high heat racing applications hoping to save housings when they go... when they go, they go.
why not eliminate the chance of it coming apart to begin with??
2, for RA so far. i'd say invest the money right, the first time, and be done with it. ALS may be just as good, i just cant vouch for them as i never experienced their parts. RA i have, and i love going to a racetrack KNOWING without a doubt in my mind, the motor will withstand anything i put it through for the weekend.
especially knowing if i'm going for podium that i can count on it to get the job done.
idk why people use oem seals and try to put them through high heat racing applications hoping to save housings when they go... when they go, they go.
why not eliminate the chance of it coming apart to begin with??
2, for RA so far. i'd say invest the money right, the first time, and be done with it. ALS may be just as good, i just cant vouch for them as i never experienced their parts. RA i have, and i love going to a racetrack KNOWING without a doubt in my mind, the motor will withstand anything i put it through for the weekend.
especially knowing if i'm going for podium that i can count on it to get the job done.
02-12-11, 05:27 PM
#25
\\TRASHTALK//
I just had my S5 rebuilt with als. Havent drove it yet but I expect great reliability with 500 hp
Get a street port and a turbonetics 60-1 and a haltech
Thats around $6000
Get a street port and a turbonetics 60-1 and a haltech
Thats around $6000