Badunkamunk

well i was just wondering if anyone slides with the dtss still in their car? is there any sudden or unpredictable snap back? i am going to get the eliminator kit but i want to test out my new 7 before it comes in the mail. if its dangerour of course i will wait, but the rain has begun and i just cant help but want to slide just a little.

also how can i tell if my dtss is till working properly?

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

my FC still has it, and i never notice it. ive never driven an FC with them so idk how they feel. my rear control arms push in and out about an 1" due to slop.

run what you have, and upgrade later is the way i always went about it.

(edit: when i say "them" i mean the DTSS eliminators)

Badunkamunk

alright thanks, that was exactly what i needed, yeah the only fear i had about buying the rx7 was the dtss and the motor. but phewww one less thing to worry about

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

people always really make them out to seem worse than they really are... the motors arent built for what people "want" to do with them. once built right, they throw down. expensive, but everything is expensive.

RX7's drive better than 240's IMO. they're better feeling, and more responsive. just go out, and have fun. the only true downside to these cars in my eyes so far, are the diff setups. the mounts arent bad, but if you break a diff, your subframe has to basically come out (atleast one side, if you're pro at it) and its always a headache....

if you need help, just ask. everyone in this section is pretty cool.

davedge

DTSS was not intended to be used in racing application. It is sort of a compromise from Mazda to compensate for the semi-trailing arm suspension. They allow the loaded tire to toe in slightly under harder driving. Being that most race cars are aligned by a knowledgeable mechanic/tech, the variable is taken out of the equation, and the mech/tech sets up the alignment for the given track/conditions.

You probably won't notice a difference if you are just getting out there. Also, as buckey said, your stock subframe/diff/trailing arm mounts probably have enough slop in them, that the DTSS would be the least of your worries. Upgrade in time... when the time comes... you'll know what you have to change...

And have fun.

Also, here's a build up from years ago, and how I went about modifying my rear susp. set up...

http://www.ziptied.com/forums/index.php?topic=7676.0

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

that should be stickied!

Badunkamunk

yeah i just came from the whole 240 thing and my friend convinced me to get the car. so far i really like it. im going to slide it (if its ready) at upcoming events from fatlace and hopefully thunder hill if i can get a tow vehicle. thanks alot for the input, it really put me at ease. Btw buckey your build is pretty awsome, and your house has hella space to work, good luck in the upcoming season

so to take out my diff i need to remove the entire subframe?!?! thats whack cause my diff bushing are basicly non-existant =/

st1llet0

iTrader: (2)

You don't need to remove the entire subframe to do it, but it is easier to wiggle it out if you loosen up the bolts and drop it down a little.

Badunkamunk

alright got it

yeah everytime i shift the change in power makes a horrible clunk, and when i mean horrible it seems like the entire subframe is about to rip from the car, its pretty scary.

i might try what davedge did, looks much easier to just swap the entire subframe with new bushings, while im at it might as well just do the dtss eliminators as well. ughh this projects guna be slowwwwww

ilia

iTrader: (4)

I drove with DTSS for two years. I can't tell you what the difference was in any concrete terms, but I can tell you that my car with DTSS in tact was an impossible to drive piece of **** that I'd have to beat the **** out of to get results from, while my other car with no DTSS felt ******* fantastic.

There were other variables involved, but I kinda think DTSS makes the car drive crappy. It can be done, but it's better without.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

maybe thats seriously why my car is never consistent. i get so ******* frustrated and always think im screwing up when maybe i should just try this setup stuff out, and get a consistent car going.... hahaha

ilia

iTrader: (4)

I've driven two really similarly set up FCs back to back, one for two years and one for one full season (before I changed to a turbo motor) and the car with DTSS eliminated made me feel so much more comfortable, and was so much easier to control. That's just my experience.

Badunkamunk

right not when i drive mountains, compared to the 240 it has a small shift in momentum when i switch directions. whenever the rear end does kick out, it feels very sketchy. most definatly i was much more confortable in the 240. but my friends 240 with HICAS was way more scary than driving the rx7

leftcoastdrifter

iTrader: (17)

i drifted for a long time with my DTSS and it was noticable to me but i liked it. i put in the eliminators and it's a little better to me when i transition but i sacrificed some on my initiation. so it's a give and take in my opinion. i wouldn't worry about "needing" them to drift at all though.

Badunkamunk

cool thats exactly how i feel with the car. it feels like i need to get them before i do anything else to the car, but i guess i will take yours and buckeys advice. just upgrade the car as i go along.


thanks for imput from everyone, the drifting section on here is really chill

sunburn

you never wanna have a stock DTSS bushing fail... (they will after some time) not pretty.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

This is exactly why grip race drivers hate DTSS. Well, one of two reasons.

The first is the obvious symptom of the car changing the rear toe angle mid turn which requires the driver to change steering inputs which changes the rear toe which again requires steering inputs, just a viscous cycle of annoyance.

The 2nd is as mentioned above, put another way when a grip driver has ideal slip angle going at the limit for the fastest cornering the toe sets, then if grip is momentarilly lost the lateral load on that tire changes from the mostly static anglular friction slip angle to ALL kinetic friction of tire slide. This change in lateral load toes the tire out when you REALLY dont want it to, bang, snap oversteer and a potentially less recoverable slide. So not only does the DTSS mess with feedback during full grip slip angle but it also messes with feedback durring slide and slide recovery.

I have no idea how this information relates to drifting as i dont drift but ultimatly i would imagine a skilled drifter would also hate having the car change alignment settings mid corner....

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

^serious info being laid down right there^

drifting, DTSS will make it a little snappier but its possible to get used to it. DTSS eliminators will make the car more consistent and probably feel a little more predictable but feeling wise, it is a very small margin to measure really. you would just be more consistent. Just plan on getting the eliminators if you drift a lot and definitely if you are planning to do comp events.

Now get out there and learn the car.lol. remember that its not a 240, the 50/50 weight distribution requires a little more skill to drift well.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

sorry, double post due to slow internet.lol

Zenki FC3S

Ive been driving for a couple years and have never noticed a problem with dtss...

i go full throttle and full lock and transition fine without them.

then i hopped in my brothers car(with dtss eliminators) and it felt the same as before he installed them....

get them tho, for realz

Badunkamunk

well seems like i dont really need them from what most of you are say, i'm going to replace them when they go out,

so how exactly do i know when they are done?

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

cars ~20 years old, they probably could use replacing even if they haven't completely and utterly disintegrated yet. that goes for most of the other suspension bushings as well, check that **** out. You might be on factory stuff still depending on previous owner history.

RockLobster

iTrader: (7)

Every DTSS bushing i have taken out to replace with eliminators (i have done 4 sets now) have been completely intact. I know because i have had to destroy them when removing them as the bolts were seized inside them. Thus even on MN roads they seem to hold up over 20 years. The rubber used seems to be pretty good and not get old and crack like rubber used everywhere else on the car.

dkwasherexd

iTrader: (8)

my vert has dtss and I spin out alot haha
I have some eliminators, just been lazy to install

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

That was what I was basing my assumption on as I have never taken the DTSS bushings out of an FC. I have seen a lot of the other bushings though,lol. Good to know.