Icemark

Okay I can buy that. But what did you like about it? I can't imagine that every single post got you off. What did you enjoy? And why would it be less enjoyable posting in there now?

Did you enjoy posting about races that never happened... did you enjoy posting about races that did happen? Does breaking the law make you happy? Man...I don't think you guys have an argument for it, that isn't "because we liked it".

And what changes can be made to make you happy about the section, as well as the other members that are frankly offended by the fact it was about a bunch of street racing.

Common guys... this is like pulling teeth.

This is not about me. This is about what is best for the members. Right now I see a handful of people that say, "well, we liked it".

And a bunch that say, "good riddance, its about time we stop accepting street racing".

So if I am going to consider changing it, you need to convince me.

Tell you what... go home, think about it. Pretend you are in front of a Judge and argue your case in a post tomorrow like you were in front of a judge.

Cop out. Your past posts and certainly that little statement of throwing your hands in the air, didn't change anybodies mind, and probably may lean it more towards retaining it, the way it is. Try again.

If you guys are afraid of posting it here, send it in a PM to me and rowtareh

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=743064&page=3

The only time that was the general consensus was right after somebody "modified" the votes. Unless this bulletin board program automatically adds 30 points to the loosing side upon transit from one section to another. But now it is right back to where it was before the move.

Icemark

Regardless, a poll means nothing in this argument unless you are saying that the members that voted positive are your reason it should be changed back to street racing.

Is that your valid reason. Because 54.09% who voted in a poll voted for it to go back?

Because 31 people voted in a poll that RedR1 is gay, yet to the best of my knowledge he is not.

and 58.82% voted that you shouldn't wear suspenders... does that mean we ban suspenders from RX-7 owners?

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

Apparently this is absolutely about mods exercising their control over the rest of the board. I've already posted an amenable solution to your problem, retaining the boards "image", and our problem, not being able to post stories without doctoring them. Posting a disclaimer states that the RX7Club does not condone street racing. A solution exists that satisfies both sides but you won't agree to it. Why? The answer we've gotten so far is, "We're the mods here, not you, we do what we want." And there's more than a handful of people saying "we liked it". According to the Poll there's nearly double the amount of votes, 54% of the total votes at the time of this post, in favor of returning the kills section to the way it was as opposed to only 27% wishing it to remain the same as it is now.

So here are the reasons for us.
1. The majority of the members on the board wish to keep it as it was.
2. It was entertaining. There are a lot of great kill stories and then there are a lot of great kill "stories".
3. It provided a benchmark for where our cars, with certain setups, stood up against other cars with their setups. And I'm not talking about "will my car beat this car?" By posting kill stories, you know for a fact who won and why.
4. It was a source of guidance for the younger kids who might have the "boy racer" mentality of running through stoplights, drifting around traffic, and generally making bad decisions while on the road. When a kid posts such a stupid story, they're typically admonished immediately after. Admonishment coming from one's peers is taken into greater consideration than the same admonishment coming from an authoritative figure.
5. More work for the mods since now they'll have to peruse through every post that's made there.
6. There's a solution to make both the mods and the members happy.

Reasons for keeping it as the "Legal Kill Section".
1. It's illegal.

I never bashed and I certainly didn't whinny. Much like hay, whinnying is for horses.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

You asked for a valid reason I gave you one. I asked the same question back to you about a different subject and you agreed. But now you go off on a tangent asking additional questions in an attempt to take merit away from what I listed under enjoyment.

Simple as that. We enjoy it.

Dpretty valid reason don't you think? Just like the sex thing: Why do you do it? Most males spend a lot of time, money, and effort in trying to get a piece of *** with no intention of bringing a child into this world... Including yourself.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

Hahahaha! Freaking win.

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

Bad example. The poll about RedR1 is obviously a joke whereas the poll about the kills section obviously isn't.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

We know it's a joke, but it shows no valid point if it were about a section, a member, or a certain car. It's a poll.

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

Uh, yeah.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

LOL. I love this forum sometimes.

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

No i was just pointing out in what I consider a flaw in your assumption stated here.

"This is not about me. This is about what is best for the members. Right now I see a handful of people that say, "well, we liked it".

And a bunch that say, "good riddance, its about time we stop accepting street racing"."

There have been plenty of reasons why it should not have been changed posted on here by others. But I'm not going to waste my breath in attempts to change that section back because it's futile. The moderators are going to do what they want regardless of any reasons brought before them. However i seem to remember when this place was purchased it was a huge announcement that "nothing was going to change around here" and it's just going to be the same ol forum. Even when people were jumping ship and the the "other forum" was made we, were asked to voice our complaints so they would be discussed among the moderators and we would get an answer to them. I also seem to recall Ryan in that thread again saying nothing is changing around here and things were going to get straightened out in the big meeting. Well apparently the summary is still work in progress (even though I bet its hanging out with everyones RX Tuner subscriptions) yet there is plenty of time to screw things up around here even more. So was this change discussed in that meeting? Or was it on a whim because somebody had an epiphany?

Overall i I think it's more sad than disappointing. It just makes one wonder what next is to come.

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

The changes to the kills section basically nullify the whole point of its existence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole reason the kills section existed is rooted in the very principle behind driving a fast car on the streets. Legal kills can reasonably be posted in the performance forums because it's a good place to put precise, measured results. rx7club is also a place where many people come to kill time and learn all kinds of things, from specific information about their cars to international news. The point of the forum is to support what the users want to use, and to do so for whatever they want to use it. Those saying the kills section should not exist are using reasons like "Street racing is illegal and dangerous" and "We don't want to read about it". The fact that the kills section exists does not mean anyone has to read it, and there is no way to show that its existence would ever increase casualties due to street racing.

While illegal street racing is not commendable, neither is getting drunk off your *** every weekend. Yet there are bars all over the country where people regularly get smashed and tell their stories the rest of the week. They tell their stories not only to their friends, but on myspace, facebook, online forums and the like. Removing a section called "Hammer time and hangovers" or changing it to "My weekend of moderate and wholly legal alcohol consumption" is akin to what is being done with the kills section. Changing the section will not change the fact that illegal and less than prudent behavior occurs, and readers will no longer be able to enjoy the hilarious stupidity nor will they be able to instruct posters in the error of their ways. There is much entertainment and learning to be had from such free discourse, and while to find those things it may require sifting through the less intelligible and totally ridiculous accounts, the fact that many users still choose to do so is an obvious indication that many people still believe it to be worthwhile.

For some people, getting drunk in public is fun, yet illegal. It carries risks to safety, property, and very often driver's licenses; yet when done properly all those risks are minimized. Street racing is fun, yet illegal. It carries risks to safety, property, and driver's licenses; yet when done properly all those risks are minimized. None of us are saying that street racing is a good thing, but we are saying it's preferable to be able to discuss it versus silence. When someone posts about getting drunk and taking dangerous drugs as a result of their lowered inhibitions there's a great opportunity to teach someone a lesson in safety. When a street race is performed in an extremely unsafe manner there's a great opportunity to teach someone a lesson in safety. When someone posts a funny anecdote about getting drunk on Main St we can all laugh about it. When someone posts a funny kill we can all laugh about it. When someone posts about getting drunk with Harrison Ford we can all envy their circumstances. When someone posts about competing with a Ford GT, LP640, 1000cc sport bike or the like; we can all envy their circumstances.

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

Sorry about the horrible grammar in my last post. I typed it out fast and didn't get a chance to look it over.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

This doesn't have anything to do with the IB takeover, why would you think that? If the section really means that much to you, use your best efforts and try to save it. We'll take all of your input into consideration. Obviously, if we only get three of four members posting well thought out arguments, it tells us something about the significance of the kills section to the general population. It's important that you get a strong showing if you want to turn this section back to the way it used to be, but that is no guarantee that we will implement your suggestions.

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

So again it's, "Well we COULD compromise and put up a disclaimer.... But we're not going to because we're the mods and we do as we please." I can't express how much that disgusts me.

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

If it wasn't an IB move then I would be even more embarrassed to call myself a mod. So I guess I was giving you guys the benefit of the doubt. You guys have provided less reason for its removal than we have for it to stay. Why doesn't Ryan come on here and explain the situation? I don't really know what more of an argument you need than the promise we were given to keep things the way they were. I would post up the specific quotes but the threads have disappeared into the abyss of things we dare not speak of. I guess peoples word doesn't mean **** these days.

I honestly feel like you guys are getting a kick out of pissing on peoples legs. First you manage to run off a bunch of loyal veterans who have committed quite a bit to the forums and the rotary community. Then when a bunch of people start to follow them you blow smoke up our *** about how nothing is changing. Then you randomly pull this BS our of nowhere. Now we are playing the new game of "Support your argument" so you can snicker about the topic (if we are lucky) in your little closed door sessions. This is all totally uncalled for and a bad move.

If this is the direction this place is headed I will be damned if I give any money to any company that I know is monetarily supporting the existence of IB.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

It is the same in the respect that IB hasn't imposed it's will to change the Kills section. That was a moderator decision and, as such, is keeping with RX7Club tradition. Your argument that the club hasn't remained the same doesn't hold water here because:

1. Ryan's promise was read as with respect only to IB taking over ownership. Mods are internal to RX7Club.
2. RX7Club has had moderator changes before, has them now and will have them later.

Personally, I'm not doing this because I like to give anyone grief.

This is my opinion and not the moderators as a whole's opinion:

There is so much garbage in the old Kills section, out of 100 threads, 3 may have been interesting. I'm not the only one that shares this viewpoint, my friends on the forum share it as well. Even if there are some interesting entertaining threads, I don't hold the opinion that it warrants the existence of a Kills section. Without the kills section, the club sends a stronger message regarding illegal street racing than just adding a disclaimer. While it may not stop anybody from street racing, I'd rather the message be sent loud and clear rather than weakened by using a disclaimer.

I don't have an input into the whole veteran situation as I was not a mod then, but I am involved with trying to make the rules for classified fair so that everyone gets a fair deal. However, the decision is not up to me and based on that decision, we may or may not see some veterans changing their mind.

At the highest level, RX7Club hasn't changed much. The primary focus, as I see it, is technical information relating to the car. While you can argue that the kills section provided technical information, that same technical information could be found in much better areas on the forum, rendering that arguement weak. Once again, this is just my opinion, but since I hate redundant sources of information, I don't really see a compelling reason to keep the Kills section.

I just don't see anything Kills-section specific that would make me want to leave the section intact.

Brismo7

iTrader: (2)

how about this:

You keep the legally sanctioned racing section, but you make a kills subforum in it(kind of like the for sale sections in the regional sections) and when you go into the kills section, just have a disclaimer at the top saying, Rx7club doesnt condone street racing and this and that. and that rx7club is not responsible for the content in that section. then let everyone post their kill storys. Or have the section be called kill stories, the only thing allowed in that section are fictional stories, and let people post their kill stories.

what do you guys think about that idea?

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

Sorry but the fact that the Moderators are embarking thier own personal crusade against illegal street racing does reflect a change. The job of the moderators if I am not mistaken is to enforce the rules of the club. Not to instill changes to reflect their own personal issues in regards to a social problem. The last time Ryan posted he specifically stated that nothing was changing around here and that everything would be cleared up in the meeting. The reason he had to make that statment in the first place was because people were jumping ship, over BS you guys were pulling just like this in the classifieds section. It had nothing to do with internet brands.

There is so much garbage in every section. But as stated before. It's not about the contents. It's about change due to a couple of peoples beliefs on illegal street racing. Which is pathetic from an enthusiast as well as a club member standpoint. So is the Lounge going to be changed into the "Bible Study" section because the topics are offensive for certain moderators, it involves people speaking of illegal activities, and doesn't reflect a healty society? I wouldnt put it past a couple of people who are obviously the shot callers. But since that place gets heavy traffic it just got blocked out unless you were a member. At least you are smart enough to attack what some would consider 3rd world sections.

I think the people who are willing to change a place to reflect their own personal agenda, on a specific social issue, should be the ones who take a hike.

KillaKitiie

If you want to kill the kill's section do not use the excuse that street racing is illegal. If thats the case then this whole site should be shut down becuase in alot of places modifying a car in any shape or form is illegal to.

Why do people buy sport's cars?
What is the purpose of a sport's car..IceMark you know this one..
So basically we keep it at the track for now on?
Fare enough but everyone of us here will speed or drive unsafe in the next week or two...soo?

680RWHP12A

he want racing anybody when he crashed, this thread is about no more streetracing kills to be posted... please stay on track

680RWHP12A

exactly! wtf?!

680RWHP12A

im assuming youve never raced anybody on the street, you will never know the adrenaline rush you get.. its like no other, and this is comming from me, a guy thats got lots of trophys from track racing...im going to enlighten you on why we need the streetracing in the kill section ,watch any of directfreak's kill videos.. nuff said

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

That's interesting, because the tech sections are about the same way. Lots of ridiculous posts or disinteresting posts, and a few gems.

KillaKitiie

Im surprised that noones gone off on this...Nothing against you Mark im just trying to grasp whats going on around hear thing's happen fast.

Are they really trying to condone EVERYTHING illegal?

If soo that defeats 85% of what goes on in this site.