So far in my driving career i've owned pretty much everything impractical from a pair of RX7's to a Single Turbo undrivable Supra.

I've been doing extensive research about the new STi and EVO and i'm pretty disappointed to be honest. When an EJ25 has Ring Land issue's people's rational to it is "You have to pay to play" Really? You spend 45k on an new STi that is advertised as a road going rally performance car and you drive it "hard" because believe you me I will drive it like I stole it everyday I'm 28 years old and even If i was driving a Ferrari 458 I would drive it like a Honda Civic. But in the STi's case it causes engine failure? I'm not going to a baby an STi or EVO but I expect it to give me at least 10 years of complete trashing. I have an 85 Corolla GTS and I tag the redline at least a dozen times a day. My RX7 was a 400whp single turbo daily driver I did the same with that for 6 years. I know the rotary reputation but I see some guys on here replacing 7000 dollar engines after 3 years and 50k I think that's a bit much and people think RX7's are unreliable. I'd consider the 2JZ-GTE as one of the 9th wonders of the world in comparison to the EJ25 and 4B11. I don't think breaking into the 12's in a quarter mile is asking moses to part the red sea anymore. Let's be honest there's no such thing as too much HP.

So does anyone here think it's going to get better before it gets worse? With the next gen STi should I wait?. I don't want to have to buy an EJ with a engine made of wood or by an EVO with a transmission made from cookies. It annoys the crap out of me because Subaru has been making this engine since 1992 and mitsubishi has 10 generations of the EVO's and they couldn't make something bulletproof by now?

Maybe the FA20 will be better. I really regret selling 2 FD's. Which one would you guys pics? EVO, STi or FR-S

 

I have test driven the FR-S and IMO its the best out of the three in reliablilty and mileage and not as common as a Evo or Sti on the road. I've seen countless sti's with snapped pistons and not to mention high insurance. Havent heard anything bad about the Evo's tho. Neighbor has the ralliart edition and he says it runs great as he tends to drive it a bit hard late at night.

 

It's typically not the stock STIs that break. Why should a company overbuild an engine to handle 150% more power? The economics aren't there in this day and age. Subaru's have ring land issues when running increased boost. If you want a 450 hp car that originally game with 300 hp you're going to have to pay for it.

You're also forgetting the price point that the STI and EVO slot into in comparison to that of the Supra. In 1998 a Turbo Supra MSRP'd for $40.5k USD. Today that same car would have cost you $57.2k USD. The 2013 STI is at most $36.2k USD MSRP. $20k difference in price makes that engine job still a bargain.

 

Honestly, I don't think you can really comment on the FR-S/BR-Z concerning reliability quite yet as 2013 is the first MY. I would say that since it's been out there's been some recalls and some issues though:

Check engine light just came on after 2k miles. - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

 

Here's the thing, you're comparing the business conditions of today with this of a time when Japanese manufactuers had all the time and ambition (and money) in the world to build the best.
I'm not saying things won't get better, but for now your title says it all.

 

What's wrong with the Evo's transmission?

 

The SST transmission in the evo is a good transmission but it has its faults. The clutches are fully submerged but there is not enough cooling so eventually with many gear changes its going to overheat, and repeated over heats means new clutches. There are mods you can do to help, like a cooler package and upgraded clutches. Transmission is built by getrag, who builds the R35 transmission.

The 5 speed is bulletproof which is why they ditched the 6 speed for the 5 speed.

I've been heavily considering a new evo, but faster more exotic cars have come down in price so I might consider those instead.

 

Mitsibushi builds cars that sound great on paper and work well as long as you can afford to keep them up, but they are really not that great. They have a well deserved reputation for being unreliable and that is why they had to bring in the 10 year, 1 gazzilion mile warrenty just to get people in the door.

Personally, I wouldn't touch one as there are very strong rumours about the company leaving Canada as early as next year and maybe even leaving North America totally. This would make parts harder to come by and leave you holding a bag of worthless warranty.

Subies are very good, but so are a bunch of North American cars. I don't think that you can get better bang for your buck than a number of the Camaro and Mustang offerings that are available right now. Big, fast and relatively cheap and they handle very well when set up right. They are also very reliable drivetrains.

I have driven a ton of different cars and in the last year raced both a Grand Am Spec Subaru and a new Mustang Boss 302s and I have to say that for about the same money to build, the Mustang was far faster, easier to drive and cheaper to run on track.

Flame suit on.

Eric

 

I agree that the new boss is much better value for money over an evo and sti, however I think its difficult to compare. The allure of an evo or sti to me is the 4 doors and 4 wheel drive. I think they are both a little underpowered and overpriced. The evo interior is so basic and bland for a 45k car. Subaru's have always been hard to service for a diy standpoint, with that whacky engine and all.

That and 5 years ago you went to a car meet and saw a dozen sti's. I went to one awhile ago and there was a dozen evos!

But my very personal opinion is, drive what you want. I don't care what's popular and that sort of thing. If I like it I'll have it.

 

Engine replacement seems to be part of Subaru ownership. Spend almost 50k after taxes and you have to baby it. Imagine if you spent 50k on an RX-7

 

What everyone here has failed to mention are the pathetic looks these 'modern' sports cars are being given.

 

Both cars have strayed far from their rally car anscestry. They need to go back to basics instead of pumping up a family sedan and throwing some decals on it.

 

the only reason these cars are so horrible is because the only time you ever read something about a new car now a days is when it breaks and the owner bitches across 8 forums about how they have 450hp and broke **** on a car built for 300hp

I think Modern cars have come a Huge way over anything from the 90's

 

People don't buy cars for what they are anymore. Back in the day you bought a car because it was the fastest one you can afford in whatever realm you were interested in. Now a days you rarely get a guy who drives his car more than a week before he starts modding it. I've yet to see a factory FR-S. Its always got aftermarket wheels or exhaust or something. Hell, I even went to toyota and they had a souped up one in the show room brand new!

Its pretty rare in Calgary to see a factory anything off the showroom floors. We probably have more modded R35's than all of Japan.

 

I agree with bwek, modern cars are pretty amazing both for performance and reliability. I got a chance to (briefly) track drive an FR-S last summer (Scion was bringing cars out to motorsports events - including, impressively, a regional autocross). Out the box the car is around the same weight as my mildly modded FC, accelerated noticeably better, and handled very nicely other than some low-speed push in the tight stuff - and that was on the factory rubber, fairly skinny (215 iirc) and pretty hard "performance" low-rolling resistance all-season rubber. And Toyota/Subaru reliability. Not that my NA FC has been anything but exemplary, but then, it's pretty slow compared to a lot of modern cars, so it's not exactly stressed.

People who dial up the boost, whether on an FD or modern turbo cars like a STI or Evo are taking a car that is already pretty highly tuned out of the box, and then adding a pile more power, heat, and stress. So yeah, they shouldn't be surprised when things start to break - at least without a host of supporting mods, and even then, you are necessarily running closer to the ragged edge.

Back to the OP's question, I'd go FR-S - I think it really comes closer to the sort of sports cars the RX-7, or old AE86 Corollas represent - reasonably light, reasonably powerful, well-sorted, and fun to drive, with a lot of connection to the driving experience. And since you say too much power is never enough, you could turbo it - although I wouldn't go looking for 400hp, unless you are willing to sacrifice some engines, transmissions and so on sorting it out. But 300hp could fantastic, and probably still very reliable - stock STI levels, in a lighter, more nimble chassis.