storage questions
10-17-09, 11:44 AM
#1
storage questions
Hey guys, i have a really basic questions ive asked myself lately.
like 99% of us Canadians, my RX7 is stored for winter. Since its in my garage and i might want to do stuff to it during winter.
- So, first of all, i was wondering, is it bad for the frame/chassis to leave the car for 6 months on jackstands (at the lowest jacking level so theres minimum stress on the jackstands), and of course with the tires removed.
i usually just leave the car sitting in the garage, but when spring comes the car is always sitting on a few flat tires. i havent had the time to have the tires filled with azote this year since i blew my engine during the summer.
- And, second question, would it be better to empty the whole gaz tank, and next summer to fill it back up enough to go to the gaz station???
or can i leave it like it is (its almost 3/4 full)
so any tips & tricks are appreciated.
thank you guys for your time and help !!
Bruno
like 99% of us Canadians, my RX7 is stored for winter. Since its in my garage and i might want to do stuff to it during winter.
- So, first of all, i was wondering, is it bad for the frame/chassis to leave the car for 6 months on jackstands (at the lowest jacking level so theres minimum stress on the jackstands), and of course with the tires removed.
i usually just leave the car sitting in the garage, but when spring comes the car is always sitting on a few flat tires. i havent had the time to have the tires filled with azote this year since i blew my engine during the summer.
- And, second question, would it be better to empty the whole gaz tank, and next summer to fill it back up enough to go to the gaz station???
or can i leave it like it is (its almost 3/4 full)
so any tips & tricks are appreciated.
thank you guys for your time and help !!
Bruno
10-17-09, 01:24 PM
#3
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http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/storage.htm
This is my first year with my 7 so I'm also wondering what people do.
The above site came up when I goggled.
This is my first year with my 7 so I'm also wondering what people do.
The above site came up when I goggled.
10-17-09, 10:58 PM
#4
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/storage.htm
This is my first year with my 7 so I'm also wondering what people do.
The above site came up when I goggled.
This is my first year with my 7 so I'm also wondering what people do.
The above site came up when I goggled.
but all of them with little to no gaz left.
but the main question of thethread is about leaving the car for 6-7 months on 4 jackstands. is it damageable for the rockers/chassis/frame.
10-17-09, 11:40 PM
#5
what I'll do is fill it almost full, [with pettit racing Protek R. 4oz] and start the car twise every week. Turn it off when rpm drops till [1000] ... so basically leave it for 10 ~15 min then turn it off, It's like your engin doing working out it needs that. I know at least 5 guys who poped their engin boosting with little gas left. Rx7 cant have too much gas or too little it's not honda kkk
Last edited by FD_virus85; 10-17-09 at 11:49 PM.
10-18-09, 09:16 AM
#7
^^It does - under the section storage myths, which also addresses the idea of starting the engine periodically:
Storage Myths
There are several common myths associated with car storage that need to be addressed.
The first is that it is somehow a good thing to start the car every week or so, then either let it idle for a while or go for a drive around the block. This is in fact one of the worst things you can possibly do to an engine. The main reason is that unless the engine reaches full operating temperature, moisture (a natural byproduct of combustion and temperature changes) and acids (combustion byproducts) will build up inside the engine and contaminate the oil and metal surfaces. Obviously this is not good for metal components and results in increased wear and shorter life. This effect is easily seen by looking inside the oil filler tube of any rotary that was used primarily for short trips as there will be a clearly visible rust scale that has formed. During normal driving the engine generally heats up enough to vaporize these nasties which are then drawn off by the purge system and burned by the engine.
The second myth is that a car should be stored on jackstands to keep the weight off the suspension. The theory is that keeping weight off of the suspension will somehow preserve it's full motion. In fact, removing the weight of the car will pull the suspension out of it's normal resting place and put it in an unnatural state of hyper extension. Keeping it this way over the long term will cause bushings and joints to bind up and the end result may be corrosion building up in the area of normal suspension travel where don't want it instead of the unused areas where it basically doesn't matter.
There are several common myths associated with car storage that need to be addressed.
The first is that it is somehow a good thing to start the car every week or so, then either let it idle for a while or go for a drive around the block. This is in fact one of the worst things you can possibly do to an engine. The main reason is that unless the engine reaches full operating temperature, moisture (a natural byproduct of combustion and temperature changes) and acids (combustion byproducts) will build up inside the engine and contaminate the oil and metal surfaces. Obviously this is not good for metal components and results in increased wear and shorter life. This effect is easily seen by looking inside the oil filler tube of any rotary that was used primarily for short trips as there will be a clearly visible rust scale that has formed. During normal driving the engine generally heats up enough to vaporize these nasties which are then drawn off by the purge system and burned by the engine.
The second myth is that a car should be stored on jackstands to keep the weight off the suspension. The theory is that keeping weight off of the suspension will somehow preserve it's full motion. In fact, removing the weight of the car will pull the suspension out of it's normal resting place and put it in an unnatural state of hyper extension. Keeping it this way over the long term will cause bushings and joints to bind up and the end result may be corrosion building up in the area of normal suspension travel where don't want it instead of the unused areas where it basically doesn't matter.
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10-18-09, 10:51 AM
#8
^^ yes you can do that but, Ok how manny guys I know puts it in jack stands?;; well my storage is underground P3,not cold at all.. I guess I'll start the car every day . leave it until all My power fc reading is perfect, air tem, oil tem , full idle 1000rpm leave it until for perfect temperature then drive around like normal in my P3 just like there was no winter thats it, is that still worst thing to do? In my personal opinion this is enough to vaporize these nasties off my FD.
10-18-09, 11:09 AM
#9
well for the engine starting, i dont have to worry about that since i blew the engine this summer. and ill swap during the winter.
so for the jackstands, anybody with past experience. i dont have the stock suspension.
i have the complete amemiya racing suspension. is it better or worse.
so for the jackstands, anybody with past experience. i dont have the stock suspension.
i have the complete amemiya racing suspension. is it better or worse.
10-18-09, 11:52 AM
#10
I've stored my car for the past 10 years on jack stands with out any problems.....I've also left the gas tank at various levels from full to 1/4 with out any problems as well. I always wash the car,change the oil, remove the battery, remove the wheels and store them in the basement. If your garage has a high moisture level put some large garbage bags around your brake rotors and calipers, this will prevent them from rusting and try to cover the car with a good car cover.
With that being said I would never start a car after its been stored for the winter, you will never heat the car up enough to remove all the condensation from the exhaust, which will cause more damage them anything...park it and leave it until spring.....
With that being said I would never start a car after its been stored for the winter, you will never heat the car up enough to remove all the condensation from the exhaust, which will cause more damage them anything...park it and leave it until spring.....
10-18-09, 03:21 PM
#11
I always store the 7, and any car, with a full or nearly full tank - the idea is to eliminate the volume in which air, with it's burden of water vapor, can occupy, and then have the moisture condense out - leading to rust in the tank (at least on our older cars with their steel tanks) and water in the fuel. If the car is stored in a climate-controlled environment, that's pretty much irrelevant, but it is for unheated garages or outside storage. It's extremely dry in Calgary during most of the winter months, so it might not be doing much for me, but that's not the case in a lot of the country.
I don't store on jackstands, I just air up the tires to keep them from flat-spotting - which I never found to be a problem even if I didn't air up. Any tire flat spots quickly round out in just a few blocks of driving. The idea of jackstands is to take the weight off the tires and wheel bearings, which back in the day were both prone to flat- spotting, and in the case of wheel bearings, supposedly squeezing out all the grease at points. I'm thinking it was my Dad's day, as I've never seen any evidence of it myself - although just the same, I do make a point of rolling the car a few inches forward or back once in a while.
I'm not sure of any benefits or detractions to allowing the suspension to sit unloaded. On one hand, it seems there might be the possibility that sitting with the suspension unloaded would let rubber bushings decompress in odd positions, which when the suspension is reloaded, may wear the bushings more. Springs might benefit from being unloaded, but I suspect the benefit is very minimal - I seem to recall reading somewhere that typical coil springs will only sag 1/4" in 20 or 25 years. In the case of my stiff coilovers, it's probably less - they don't compress much when the weight of the car is put on them in the first place.
I am quite sure that starting and idling the car regularly is a bad idea. Even though the coolant gets to normal temps in 15 minutes or so, it is unlikely the oil does with anything less than 15 minutes of normal driving, and that would be after a warm-up in winter. As Jim points out, it is important that the exhaust system also get up to full temps, which is again unlikely with a simple idle. Without reaching full temp, the exhaust system condenses water, unburned fuel, and other residues from exhaust gases, and particulates, leading to internal rust and potential clogging if you have a cat. Aaron and every other source I've read in 25 years of storing cars also have noted that running it periodically, especially just an idle, quickly builds contaminants in the oil, negating the value of changing the oil before storing it. If you do want to run it periodically, because you can't/won't fog it and are worried about seals sticking or drying out, no more than once every 6-8 weeks is more than adequate - and if the car is being stored more than a few months, it really should just be fogged and left to sit.
I don't store on jackstands, I just air up the tires to keep them from flat-spotting - which I never found to be a problem even if I didn't air up. Any tire flat spots quickly round out in just a few blocks of driving. The idea of jackstands is to take the weight off the tires and wheel bearings, which back in the day were both prone to flat- spotting, and in the case of wheel bearings, supposedly squeezing out all the grease at points. I'm thinking it was my Dad's day, as I've never seen any evidence of it myself - although just the same, I do make a point of rolling the car a few inches forward or back once in a while.
I'm not sure of any benefits or detractions to allowing the suspension to sit unloaded. On one hand, it seems there might be the possibility that sitting with the suspension unloaded would let rubber bushings decompress in odd positions, which when the suspension is reloaded, may wear the bushings more. Springs might benefit from being unloaded, but I suspect the benefit is very minimal - I seem to recall reading somewhere that typical coil springs will only sag 1/4" in 20 or 25 years. In the case of my stiff coilovers, it's probably less - they don't compress much when the weight of the car is put on them in the first place.
I am quite sure that starting and idling the car regularly is a bad idea. Even though the coolant gets to normal temps in 15 minutes or so, it is unlikely the oil does with anything less than 15 minutes of normal driving, and that would be after a warm-up in winter. As Jim points out, it is important that the exhaust system also get up to full temps, which is again unlikely with a simple idle. Without reaching full temp, the exhaust system condenses water, unburned fuel, and other residues from exhaust gases, and particulates, leading to internal rust and potential clogging if you have a cat. Aaron and every other source I've read in 25 years of storing cars also have noted that running it periodically, especially just an idle, quickly builds contaminants in the oil, negating the value of changing the oil before storing it. If you do want to run it periodically, because you can't/won't fog it and are worried about seals sticking or drying out, no more than once every 6-8 weeks is more than adequate - and if the car is being stored more than a few months, it really should just be fogged and left to sit.
10-19-09, 09:13 AM
#12
Engine, Not Motor
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The main reason I say to store the car off of jackstands is that "short term" storage often turns into "long term" storage. While the car was only intended to be stored for a few months, it could sit there for years. If the suspension is unloaded for that amount of time, bad things would certainly happen. In the short term of one winter, I highly doubt it makes much difference. I just pump my tires to 50 PSI as talked about in my writeup.
Starting the engine during any properly prepared storage is a huge mistake as already covered, for the reasons already stated. If you intend to drive the car, then drive it. If you intend to store it, then store it. Don't combine the two. The issues with contamination show up even just with regular drives to work, so imagine how much gunk builds up in the engine if it is simply allowed to idle...
Starting the engine during any properly prepared storage is a huge mistake as already covered, for the reasons already stated. If you intend to drive the car, then drive it. If you intend to store it, then store it. Don't combine the two. The issues with contamination show up even just with regular drives to work, so imagine how much gunk builds up in the engine if it is simply allowed to idle...
10-19-09, 12:19 PM
#13
Thanks That make sense. But The new Ovation condo Has heating system not like my other house or other old Condos,This condo fully opend at 2008, So P3 is not cold it's not even winter down there we always play soccer at P3 or P4 with our shirts off and still we be sweating... it's like spring down there in my second place, it's so huge and there is no camera after P3,good for driving around and there is up to P4 huge parking, I couldn't drive my Fd for summer and this is chance LOL. anyways good to know if I move later I'll do that.
Last edited by FD_virus85; 10-19-09 at 12:34 PM.
10-20-09, 08:48 AM
#14
Engine, Not Motor
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It doesn't matter how warm the storage area is. The car needs to be driven a fair distance to be properly warmed up and for the purge system to empty the crankcase.
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