A Serious Engine build
03-21-08, 09:04 AM
#27
03-21-08, 03:03 PM
#28
Go Hard....or Go Home
A lot of the USA builders have gone that route including Racing Beat. I spoke with a few of them when we built our P.Port last year. You have to remember that the RX8 rotors and Eshafts are readily available and also less expensive than the older parts. After a long conversation with Dave Lemon at Mazdatrix (owner and engine developer) he advised me the most power they had made was still from the ultra lightweight assembly from RB that were based on 89-91 non turbo rotors. After all of our conversations we chose the 89-91 rotors and 1985 GSLSE e-shaft for the P.Port. It made 260RWHP on a Mustang dyno, which would be about 300-320 at the egine which is right on the money. Im sure over the next few years the RX8 internals as they develope will produce more power than what we have, based on supply the fact most of the shops are working on those newer parts.
03-21-08, 05:59 PM
#29
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When they were testing the Renesis internals, what kind of engine did they test it on? A PP like yours? If so, thats been the common knowledge for a while now. Renesis internals on a PP does not make more power, if anything slightly less.
The difference here is we're using the side ports, which is what the Renesis rotors were designed for.
The difference here is we're using the side ports, which is what the Renesis rotors were designed for.
03-21-08, 06:25 PM
#30
RPM can you elaborate a little more on the porting desing that you use on the center iron?Why does the eyebrown goes that far down?I tried one time to go down(not that far) and i fuc$^^&up the iron(hit the water jacket)Looks like its gonna be fun to drive.
03-21-08, 06:32 PM
#31
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Well I used the bridgeport template I made, for all 4 bridges so that they both primary and secondary bridges open at exactly the same time on each rotor.
It just goes to show you how differently placed the original primary port is compared to the secondary.
It just goes to show you how differently placed the original primary port is compared to the secondary.
03-21-08, 11:26 PM
#32
Go Hard....or Go Home
Well Joe these guys mainly race street ports actually in E-Production so they are very limited to the porting they can do. I amazes me that they can flow well enough to turn over 10,000RPM with a street port. Like I said before I do believe the RX8 rotors are the way the future is going, and guys like you will likely be the ones to develope them! Mazda it seems has dropped the 1.3 Renesis from what I have read and is working on the 1.6 X engine (whatever that is)
03-27-08, 02:59 AM
#34
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I got it fired up today!
Man, does it ever sound bad ***! Almost like the 787B idle, real quick sharp brap's.
We're heading to the dyno on Friday to put some hours on the engine, then we'll do a couple power pulls to see what this thing will put down.
Man, does it ever sound bad ***! Almost like the 787B idle, real quick sharp brap's.
We're heading to the dyno on Friday to put some hours on the engine, then we'll do a couple power pulls to see what this thing will put down.
03-27-08, 05:30 AM
#36
Licensed Zip Tie Mechanic
Good work Joe. 
It sounds awesome! That should be able to **** off our race director adequately with the racket.
Can you use the widebody car as the shipping crate?
It sounds awesome! That should be able to **** off our race director adequately with the racket. Can you use the widebody car as the shipping crate?
03-27-08, 02:33 PM
#39
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Otherwise I'll never make the track-side noise limit.
I just listened to it twice on headphones connected to my ThinkPad and my ears rang...
Oh, stupid question, but, you aren't running this off of the Turbo II fuel pump are you?
03-27-08, 03:00 PM
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My car has a aeromotive A1000 fuel pump so its running off that. Unless Joe took it out but i don't think so.
Good thing I spent the money on the pre-silencer to go along with my true-duals.
Otherwise I'll never make the track-side noise limit.
I just listened to it twice on headphones connected to my ThinkPad and my ears rang...
Oh, stupid question, but, you aren't running this off of the Turbo II fuel pump are you?
Otherwise I'll never make the track-side noise limit.
I just listened to it twice on headphones connected to my ThinkPad and my ears rang...
Oh, stupid question, but, you aren't running this off of the Turbo II fuel pump are you?
03-27-08, 04:51 PM
#41
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Ok. Reason I ask is that Weber is only supposed to see 4.5lbs of pressure.
I sent up my fuel pressure regulator, but it can only bring it down from a carb. level of fuel pressure, not an FI level.
I sent up my fuel pressure regulator, but it can only bring it down from a carb. level of fuel pressure, not an FI level.
03-27-08, 07:26 PM
#43
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Great. I suspected as much, but figured it never hurts to ask...
BTW, just this second finished measuring up the remaining open space on the car for some stickers for you guys.
BTW, just this second finished measuring up the remaining open space on the car for some stickers for you guys.
03-28-08, 03:54 PM
#46
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Well a little dissapointing, but with some very good reasons.
First off, we dyno'ed the car with 19" rims on it....probably not the greatest thing to find out the WHP.
Second, the carb needs to be jetted...badly. It pulled pretty hard right up to about 6500-7000 rpm then the carb ran rich and fell right on its face.
We ran it for about 3/4 hour at various rpms under load on the dyno then tried a couple power runs just for fun.
Here is what we came up with:
Basically the carb gives out right when the engine starts to make power and it looks like the HP line is starting to go north. It then hits a rich spot, dips down then bounces back for another burst of power, then dies again.
So if we had some jets for the carb and were able to dial it in all the way to 9500rpm, Id say it will make some pretty decent power.
First off, we dyno'ed the car with 19" rims on it....probably not the greatest thing to find out the WHP.
Second, the carb needs to be jetted...badly. It pulled pretty hard right up to about 6500-7000 rpm then the carb ran rich and fell right on its face.
We ran it for about 3/4 hour at various rpms under load on the dyno then tried a couple power runs just for fun.
Here is what we came up with:
Basically the carb gives out right when the engine starts to make power and it looks like the HP line is starting to go north. It then hits a rich spot, dips down then bounces back for another burst of power, then dies again.
So if we had some jets for the carb and were able to dial it in all the way to 9500rpm, Id say it will make some pretty decent power.
03-28-08, 04:01 PM
#47
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As you say, a touch dis-appointing, but not too much.
Driveline alone is losing a few HP.
Also, from experience with it, if you run at low RPM/idle for an extended period of time, the plugs and carb load-up and it bogs horribly the first few times to try rev it through.
I actually idled in the paddock too long once, did a low-rpm formation lap, and then as soon as I tried to give it some throttle to take off, the car bogged and died. It was a pain in the behind...
Plus, the air jet in that thing right now is way-small. Some break-in time, and a bunch of carb jetting time should help a lot.
*edit: Just checked my notes. WAY small on the air. Racing Beat recommends 165 for air on a Bridge and 110 on a PP with that carb.
Carb has a 105 in it right now. (We went a bit smaller based on our proximity to sea level where I am, and the weather on the last day the car ran. We just pulled the carb off the car, put it in a box and shipped it up.)
Just for reference, it has 240 in it for a main, and RB recommend 235 for a BP and 240 for a PP, so the fuel is close. I think we are having air issues. Nothing that can't be fixed with a flat-head screwdriver.....
Driveline alone is losing a few HP.
Also, from experience with it, if you run at low RPM/idle for an extended period of time, the plugs and carb load-up and it bogs horribly the first few times to try rev it through.
I actually idled in the paddock too long once, did a low-rpm formation lap, and then as soon as I tried to give it some throttle to take off, the car bogged and died. It was a pain in the behind...
Plus, the air jet in that thing right now is way-small. Some break-in time, and a bunch of carb jetting time should help a lot.
*edit: Just checked my notes. WAY small on the air. Racing Beat recommends 165 for air on a Bridge and 110 on a PP with that carb.
Carb has a 105 in it right now. (We went a bit smaller based on our proximity to sea level where I am, and the weather on the last day the car ran. We just pulled the carb off the car, put it in a box and shipped it up.)
Just for reference, it has 240 in it for a main, and RB recommend 235 for a BP and 240 for a PP, so the fuel is close. I think we are having air issues. Nothing that can't be fixed with a flat-head screwdriver.....
Last edited by Redshft; 03-28-08 at 04:21 PM.
03-28-08, 06:35 PM
#49
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Oh, I'm sure the power is in there. In fact, the more I think about it, the happier I am with that result. We still have 3000-4000rpm of powerband left that we need to use, and that carb is WAY off.
We used RX8 rotors and made aprox. RX8 RWHP (or a bit better), but 2500rpm lower, and it's not tuned yet.
Just need to get it back here, get it broken in properly, and then start seriously tuning it.
*Edit: At the risk of feeling the "Wrath of my better half" I'd be REALLY curious to see what it would do with a Haltech...
We used RX8 rotors and made aprox. RX8 RWHP (or a bit better), but 2500rpm lower, and it's not tuned yet.
Just need to get it back here, get it broken in properly, and then start seriously tuning it.
*Edit: At the risk of feeling the "Wrath of my better half" I'd be REALLY curious to see what it would do with a Haltech...
Last edited by Redshft; 03-28-08 at 06:42 PM.