Semi-PP....did I do it right?
What kind of difference are you seeing between the MazdaSpeed (RB?) housings and the ones sourced from people like Goopy? Specific design differences, or just that innate feeling of "quality" that a higher end part sometimes has that can't be described?
Honestly interested as I plan to do a PP some day and will pick up the right parts over time.
Honestly interested as I plan to do a PP some day and will pick up the right parts over time.
The housings were purchased through Mazdaspeed from Racing Beat, actually. The Mazdaspeed ones are discontinued but my understanding is that RB has the MS design and makes theirs to the same specs. It says on the RB website they are remakes of the the Mazda Factory Racing design, so maybe Mazdaspeed is selling the RB ones through the website since the MFR ones are discontinued? I can't remember now lol They did come in Mazda packaging, though.
Last edited by CS13B; Dec 10, 2013 at 10:43 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 3
From: Kitchener Ontario Canada
Well the Intake port timing is definitely different, the Mazdaspeed intake sleeve is on a downward angle, Goopy's sleeve goes straight in.
Mazdaspeed housing has a longer duration intake timing because its oval'ed, Goopy's is a round hole.
The sleeve on the Mazdaspeed is tapered, Goopy's is a complete straight tube.
Mazdaspeed housing is brand new, Goopy's are used resurfaced housings.
Again, there is nothing wrong with Goopy's housings at all, they are just produced simpler. I can see the Mazdaspeed housing having a lot more time put into them.
I have a pair of Goopy's housings for my own 13B PP engine, it will be neat to compare this engine with mine. Although I'll be building a different intake manifold for my engine, that can make a huge difference in power.
Mazdaspeed housing has a longer duration intake timing because its oval'ed, Goopy's is a round hole.
The sleeve on the Mazdaspeed is tapered, Goopy's is a complete straight tube.
Mazdaspeed housing is brand new, Goopy's are used resurfaced housings.
Again, there is nothing wrong with Goopy's housings at all, they are just produced simpler. I can see the Mazdaspeed housing having a lot more time put into them.
I have a pair of Goopy's housings for my own 13B PP engine, it will be neat to compare this engine with mine. Although I'll be building a different intake manifold for my engine, that can make a huge difference in power.
Thanks for the feedback Joe. Interesting observations. When the time comes, I'm sure it will come down to the budget, but, it does sound like these have some advantages that justify the extra.
Hopefully when the time comes I'll still get my discount with RB.
Hopefully when the time comes I'll still get my discount with RB.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 0
From: North Bay, Ontario
Nice work Joe. Love the additional cooling fittings. Any concern that the tapered threads will put pressure around the spark plug bungs? I see some race-clearanced rotor bearings in there and tip clearancing, were they balanced? Wondering who around the area does all that. Those one-piece carbons or ceramics? Everything looks pimp.
On the topic, I always felt that a semi-pp short crank 4-rotor would be sick with slightly smaller PP's (say 2") as well as the primary ports. The sound would be pure sex, especially with the extra ports. I love the sound of semi-pp 20B's, this would be off the hook.
You should post the results after both the Goopy-housing 13B and this PP are built. Those are some gangster housings indeed.
On the topic, I always felt that a semi-pp short crank 4-rotor would be sick with slightly smaller PP's (say 2") as well as the primary ports. The sound would be pure sex, especially with the extra ports. I love the sound of semi-pp 20B's, this would be off the hook.
You should post the results after both the Goopy-housing 13B and this PP are built. Those are some gangster housings indeed.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 3
From: Kitchener Ontario Canada
Nice work Joe. Love the additional cooling fittings. Any concern that the tapered threads will put pressure around the spark plug bungs? I see some race-clearanced rotor bearings in there and tip clearancing, were they balanced? Wondering who around the area does all that. Those one-piece carbons or ceramics? Everything looks pimp.
On the topic, I always felt that a semi-pp short crank 4-rotor would be sick with slightly smaller PP's (say 2") as well as the primary ports. The sound would be pure sex, especially with the extra ports. I love the sound of semi-pp 20B's, this would be off the hook.
You should post the results after both the Goopy-housing 13B and this PP are built. Those are some gangster housings indeed.
On the topic, I always felt that a semi-pp short crank 4-rotor would be sick with slightly smaller PP's (say 2") as well as the primary ports. The sound would be pure sex, especially with the extra ports. I love the sound of semi-pp 20B's, this would be off the hook.
You should post the results after both the Goopy-housing 13B and this PP are built. Those are some gangster housings indeed.
Not worried at all about the NPT fittings interfering with the spark plugs.
Mazdaspeed rotor bearings, tip clearanced S5 rotors and yes full rotating assembly balanced.
As far as I know, I'm the only Rotary rebuilder in Ontario who has balancing capabilities for Rotary engines, my contact does not want to deal with the general public and has asked me to not share his info.
1 piece Carbon Apex seals from Racing Beat
Well the Intake port timing is definitely different, the Mazdaspeed intake sleeve is on a downward angle, Goopy's sleeve goes straight in.
Mazdaspeed housing has a longer duration intake timing because its oval'ed, Goopy's is a round hole.
The sleeve on the Mazdaspeed is tapered, Goopy's is a complete straight tube.
Mazdaspeed housing is brand new, Goopy's are used resurfaced housings.
Again, there is nothing wrong with Goopy's housings at all, they are just produced simpler. I can see the Mazdaspeed housing having a lot more time put into them.
I have a pair of Goopy's housings for my own 13B PP engine, it will be neat to compare this engine with mine. Although I'll be building a different intake manifold for my engine, that can make a huge difference in power.
Mazdaspeed housing has a longer duration intake timing because its oval'ed, Goopy's is a round hole.
The sleeve on the Mazdaspeed is tapered, Goopy's is a complete straight tube.
Mazdaspeed housing is brand new, Goopy's are used resurfaced housings.
Again, there is nothing wrong with Goopy's housings at all, they are just produced simpler. I can see the Mazdaspeed housing having a lot more time put into them.
I have a pair of Goopy's housings for my own 13B PP engine, it will be neat to compare this engine with mine. Although I'll be building a different intake manifold for my engine, that can make a huge difference in power.
Keeps the engine temperature more balanced throughout the motor. I was gonna do it to my 20b but then decided to use Evans coolant instead. Mostly cause I got lazy to be honest, I had already purchased the fittings... lol
thewird
thewird
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,745
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From: North Bay, Ontario
Heat is focused around the spark plug holes (the 'combustion chamber') and unlike 4-strokes they don't get a cooling intake cycle every other revolution. Too much heat in that area can also cause protrusion of the spark plug bungs (which are not aluminum and have higher thermal expansion), and can cause damage to the apex seals or cause leakage past the seals (which IMO can lead to pre-ignition in the next cycle)
Plus they help keep the temperature balanced between the chambers (instead of getting progressively hotter front to rear). I've got two EWP's for my build, one plumbed into the factory location in the front iron and the second feeding cool water from the rad directly to the housings with fittings like those. Hoping to some day make use of that 20B I grabbed off you Joe, I'mma be ready for heat.
Plus they help keep the temperature balanced between the chambers (instead of getting progressively hotter front to rear). I've got two EWP's for my build, one plumbed into the factory location in the front iron and the second feeding cool water from the rad directly to the housings with fittings like those. Hoping to some day make use of that 20B I grabbed off you Joe, I'mma be ready for heat.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 3
From: Kitchener Ontario Canada
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 3
From: Kitchener Ontario Canada
For those of you who are not following RPM on Facebook, here are recent pics of the engine installed
BTW https://www.facebook.com/rpmmotorsports1 <--- Like, follow.
BTW https://www.facebook.com/rpmmotorsports1 <--- Like, follow.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,745
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From: North Bay, Ontario
Love the cooling work buddy. What are you using for water pump(s)? I'm gonna second stealing the idea for the AN splitter to hardline for individual plug cooling, that's a circuit racer's dream right there!
Any reason why you're not bypassing the front cover and drilling out the galley hole to send oil out the front iron? It would be tight to the alternator bracket but not impossible, no? Not sure how much of a difference it makes in flow, but it eliminates some leakage points at minimum.
Any reason why you're not bypassing the front cover and drilling out the galley hole to send oil out the front iron? It would be tight to the alternator bracket but not impossible, no? Not sure how much of a difference it makes in flow, but it eliminates some leakage points at minimum.
I'm curious why you bother to add the lines to the front housing though. The front housing is already getting fresh coolant in that spot as its just come from the water pump so it seems to be of no benifit. Doesn't hurt anything but extra weight and effort hehehe.
thewird
thewird
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 3
From: Kitchener Ontario Canada
^Trots is talking about oil, not coolant.
An oil fitting out the front iron would be nice, but space is tight for sure. I do like the idea of reducing an extra point of possible leakage. Although it would leak internally and just drop oil pressure....which would suck as well. lol
We are using this water pump:
https://www.stewartcomponents.com/in...&product_id=70
I custom made a swirl pot and all the aluminum hard pipes last weekend
An oil fitting out the front iron would be nice, but space is tight for sure. I do like the idea of reducing an extra point of possible leakage. Although it would leak internally and just drop oil pressure....which would suck as well. lol
We are using this water pump:
https://www.stewartcomponents.com/in...&product_id=70
I custom made a swirl pot and all the aluminum hard pipes last weekend
Oops, I see how that can get confused. I knew what trott was talking about, I actually did that to the semi-pp I did but what I was asking about was your coolant lines. Why bother going to the front housing?
thewird
thewird
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 3
From: Kitchener Ontario Canada
The area around the spark plugs get very hot, no matter that fresh coolant is coming in on that side from the water pump.
Any bit helps. It certainly wont hurt it.
Any bit helps. It certainly wont hurt it.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 0
From: North Bay, Ontario
thewird it's not just about the temperature of the coolant but the flow to remove heat. This concentrates a steady flow over the hot spots instead of just path of least resistance through the block. I have the fittings as well, was going to build a little manifold or something but that 4-1 AN adapter looks
Nice work as usual on the fabbing Joe, I was peeking at your facebook page earlier.
-Taylor
Nice work as usual on the fabbing Joe, I was peeking at your facebook page earlier.
-Taylor